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New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

washingtonpost.com

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Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#511

Post by willsmith72 »

purple_ferret wrote: post #311
infecto wrote: post #45

Just cause feels like a stretch. Is that common in a lot of employment contracts? Feels like one of those rules that sounds like it could make sense but in reality it does not play out and you get this weird cohort of unproductive employees that you can never get rid of.

It's very common in union contracts. They way it usually works is there is a probationary period that you can fire someone under for any reason (usually 90 days), but after that, supposedly you're more protected. That said, in practice, it doesn't really prevent you from being part of a layoff or anything. You'll just get more notice and complaints.

Union contracts, or just about any permanent contract in "the west" except America

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#512

Post by throwaway984393 »

gruez wrote: post #444
calibas wrote: post #431

Why would anybody trust a NYT article about internal drama at the NYT? Does HN not understand bias? Compare the NYT article to other reporting, and you can see the difference. There's a few things the NYT forgot to mention, like the fact that these negotiations have been drawn out for 2 years now. Or this: "Throughout the bargaining process, Times management has engaged in numerous labor law violations, including imp…

>"Why would anybody trust a NYT article about internal drama at the NYT? Does HN not understand bias?" >links to a blog post from the union

[dead]

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#513

Post by sonthonax »

lallysingh wrote: post #469
sonthonax wrote: post #445

[flagged]

This is also Tech in NYC. The average salary ($190k) is low for that market, so they're asking for an easier work-life balance. Why they have 600 people is a question for management, no? Kafka's not exactly hard to set up, especially for simple configs for low event rates. The justification from the link you posted: > On the other side we have a wide range of services and applications that need > access to this publi…

If it's low for the market why choose to work at the NYT?

Being a tech worker isn't like being a steelworker where you're kinda screwed if the plant shuts down. You're fully capable of moving job if you're dissatisfied.

> Why they have 600 people is a question for management, no?

It's a question for everyone at the organisation. If you're joining a firm with a massively bloated headcount you need to think if you're going to be there in a year's time when someone in management finally gathers the political capital to slim your department down to sane levels.

It's certainly not a position to start bargaining even more concessions from the hand that's feeding you.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#514

Post by joenot443 »

lallysingh wrote: post #450
gruez wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Why would anybody trust a NYT article about internal drama at the NYT? Does HN not understand bias?" >links to a blog post from the union

Descriptions from both sides are now included, what did you want here?

I found this article to be a pretty balanced perspective -

https://www.axios.com/2024/11/04/nyt-tech-workers-strike-ahe...

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#515

Post by IG_Semmelweiss »

miltonlost wrote: post #496
csallen wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that extreme? If you own a company, why shouldn't you be able to fire someone at any time? If you work a job, why shouldn't you be able to quit at any time? I don't think it's great that our society tries to treat work like it's family, and jobs like they're some guaranteed long-term relationship. It sets people up with the wrong expectations. Your company will lay you off or fire you once they run out of mone…

> If you own a company, why shouldn't you be able to fire someone at any time? Because that is bad for the individual worker. We live in a society, and society should look out for humans before corporations.

I recommend you travel to LATAM or EMEA, where worker protections are much higher. No one gets fired because protections are so high. At-will is unheard of [1]. In some countries, there's a mandatory X months of salary for Y months worked. The regulation of the labor market, however, is strict and inflexible [2], and all LATAM jurisdictions impose mandatory severance pay for wrongful terminations.[2]

What are the results of worker protections mentioned above ? Literally no jobs with protections. See for yourself. LATAM has an average of ~65% informal employment. Take Argentina for example. Close to 50% of the labor market are under-the-table "jobs" for this reason.[3]. Even more developed countries suffer the consequences , such as UK having 24% informal sector [4]

All those governments intended to look out for humans before corporations. It didn't work out that way. The road to poverty is paved with good intentions.

US dynamism actually creates more jobs as more are willing to try new things and experiment.

Yes, you can protect workers, very very well. But only if you are OK with a tiny amount of protected workers, and let everyone else toil in the informal sector where zero protections exist

[1] https://goglobal.com/blog/from-legal-protocols-to-cultural-n...

[2] https://www.acc.com/sites/default/files/resources/vl/public/...

[3] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1037216/informal-employm...

[4] https://ilostat.ilo.org/topics/informality/

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#516

Post by Xelynega »

dialup_sounds wrote: post #484
School-Cotton wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way do you think the current tech industry has turned into a shit show?

There's a lot of companies now that expect you to leave the house and go work around other people. Like, what the hell?

That's a weird way to say:

"Companies are taking more of people time for the same pay, in addition to requiring unpaid commute time".

I usually don't like when I work more for less, do you?

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#517

Post by gruez »

krainboltgreene wrote: post #477
gruez wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The default for the US is "at-will employment", which means that your employer can fire you at any time, no reason needed. That seems... fine? In most transaction neither party needs to give "just cause" to terminate a contract. Imagine having to give documentation to move out of your current apartment, for instance. Getting fired is disruptive to someone's finances that some notice/severance would be justified, but…

It's not fine. It sucks for just about everyone involved except the business owner.

This fails to consider second order effects. Adding more friction to firings also makes teams less performant (as they fail to get rid of underperforming employees), as makes finding a job more difficult (because companies are more reluctant to hire on the off chance they get a bad employee they can't get rid of). This isn't theoretical. Returns suck for retailers, but they still voluntarily offer it because it entices consumers to buy things they wouldn't otherwise buy.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#518

Post by stego-tech »

borkt wrote: post #268
stego-tech wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I see people critique those numbers as being “too high”, or demands for additional compensation “unreasonable”, I can’t help but think those people don’t understand that $100k is very much the new $45k of the 2000s, and has much less purchasing power than the latter did at the time. Truth be told, for the present cost of living in the Northeast in general, you’re looking at a family income of $300k to be “comfor…

I make ~30,000/yr doing seasonal physical work. Prior to this role I was a municipal engineer. Be careful what you whistleblow.

At the end of the day, we’re all on the same side. I make ~5x the rest of my household combined, but spend a plurality of my time and energy advocating for their enrichment and support because I know that if they’re taken care of, I will be too, when I really need it.

If you have to work to live, then we’re on the same side, and we all deserve more money to help us offset this cost of living crisis.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#519

Post by gklitz »

themacguffinman wrote: post #471
lallysingh wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Descriptions from both sides are now included, what did you want here?

A neutral source from a third party news outlet. Do you think bias is a one-dimensional tug of war that cancels each other out when combined?

Being unbiased yourself does mean listening to both sides. What an off request that you would want to hear only from one party and then only additionally neutral parties but not hear from the other side at all because of “bias”.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#520

Post by kergonath »

themacguffinman wrote: post #471
lallysingh wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Descriptions from both sides are now included, what did you want here?

A neutral source from a third party news outlet. Do you think bias is a one-dimensional tug of war that cancels each other out when combined?

Too many people believe that we can balance excessive bias with excessive bias in another direction. In reality:

- bias cannot be eliminated, merely mitigated;

- the truth is not the average of all opinions;

- some sources are important even if their point of view is subjective.

Unfortunately, the whole internet seems to be engulfed in a nihilistic tribal war where everything is black or white. This kind of argument is a hammer you can use at any point when you don’t like an argument, because there is no objective source. Then, the conversation shifts to a discussion of the various point of views and all contact with reality is lost.

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