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Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge
511–520 of 607 posts
Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge
#512Earlier quoted context omitted.
That functionality was never available in phones with Google builds without Google Play Services, so it doesn't fit GGP's claim. The reason it's not in base AOSP out of the box is that it requires a server, and any carrier can build an implementation for downloading carrier profiles without Google Play Services and any OEM can build an LPA using https://source.android.com/docs/core/connect/esim-overview .
You don’t have GPS satellite data, “location services” without Google Play services. That means a gps lock takes minutes. This data could be stored on the phone, but it’s better for google if you fetch it from them when you need it.
the only thing you miss out on without google play services is the wifi/bluetooth location service
gps satellite data comes from a supl server, and supl support is built in to aosp.
now, unfortunately one of the most reliable supl data sources is google, but it's also trivial to run a proxy to mask where you're requesting the supl data from (neither the request nor payload vary)
Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge
#513Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is a terrible incentive structure to set up for platforms. I get the reasoning, but I chose Android because it's open and I've never run into any of the anticompetitive problems people claim are so damaging. If Google had known that this was the deal at the beginning, I doubt they'd have created Android the way that they did and I wouldn't have an open platform to use—we'd just have two walled gardens. How is th…
It's the law. Having a closed platform isn't illegal. Just ask Nintendo. Anticompetitive behavior is illegal, even when you are anticompetitively competing in a market that you yourself chose to create by creating an open platform. Just ask Microsoft. If Google's leadership didn't understand that legal restrictions their choice placed upon them, that failure is on Google's leaderhip.
Like I said, I get the reasoning, I just think it's a terrible outcome.
> "If the law supposes that," said Mr. Bumble, squeezing his hat emphatically in both hands, "the law is a ass—a idiot. If that's the eye of the law, the law is a bachelor; and the worst I wish the law is, that his eye may be opened by experience—by experience."
(Charles Dickens, Oliver Twist)
Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge
#514Isn't Samsung's Store and F-Droid all ready third party?
Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge
#515Wait, so the Google Play Store, which you can install alternatives to (F-Droid, Aurora, Amazon,...), and where you can easily install apps through other means (such as downloading an APK through your browser and running it from the file manager) is an illegal monopoly while the Apple App Store isn't? Well, I guess Google's market cap is only 2 trillion compared to Apple's 3 trillion, so I guess that's fair.
I came here looking for this comment and you didn’t disappoint
Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge
#516Earlier quoted context omitted.
What would I take with me? My photos and email will move just fine. The last app I bought was a while ago, and it was an app to block Google AMP. I’m honestly not sure I use any other paid apps.
So no Apps. Also no iTunes, Apple Music, Apple Messages, Apple Pay, Apple Fitness, any kind of native Mac integration (Safari Bookmark sharing, Shared Bluetooth devices, clipboard sharing, Continuity Camera, AirPlay,...)? No Apple Wireless charger, Apple Watch, Airpods, Apple-specific Accessories, Apple App-based carkeys or Apple CarPlay? That's quite rare.
As an experiment I recently switched from iPhone (last 10 years?) to Android. It's been a little painful but:
- nearly all apps support Android as well. The ones I used (navionics, banking apps, WhatsApp) you just log in on Android, no cost involved. - most Apple first party apps have a Google equivalent (google wallet, google keep notes, google messaging etc.) that is very similar - my AirPods work equally well with android
Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge
#517Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is ridiculous. From Google's reply ( https://blog.google/outreach-initiatives/public-policy/epic-... ): "These Epic-requested changes stem from a decision that is completely contrary to another court’s rejection of similar claims Epic made against Apple — even though, unlike iOS, Android is an open platform that has always allowed for choice and flexibility like multiple app stores and sideloading."
It has allowed it, but it intentionally cripples alternative markets. For example, I cannot allow F-Droid to autoinstall and autoupdate apps on my phone if I don't have a rooted device.
Also, applications installed through FDroid cannot be used in Android Auto. For example OsmAnd navigation.
Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge
#518Earlier quoted context omitted.
As of today, there is no player in the Smartphone space who has even remotely the amount of secured income to come up with a similarly volume-scaled device, and there is little incentive for anyone to enter this space. A new entrant would be unable to secure the investment, because even if he would produce the exact same piece of hardware with the same quality, the carrier distribution channels, the brand-image and (…
What would I take with me? My photos and email will move just fine. The last app I bought was a while ago, and it was an app to block Google AMP. I’m honestly not sure I use any other paid apps.
If you used iMessage, Apple phones remember this and will continue sending you iMessages which you won't receive on your non-Apple phone.
Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge
#519Earlier quoted context omitted.
This might explain (or be related to) why when I installed an Amazon app through Amazon's store it would get hijacked by the Play Store version eventually.
Generally no that doesn't happen. It may be very specific to Amazon though. Android uses signing keys to validate updates, and if the signing key doesn't match, it is impossible to install the update. My guess is Amazon (was?) using the same signing keys between the two stores. Most developers use Google's app signing service to ensure that a loss of the signing key will not strand their users on old versions. In tha…
Interesting. I assumed there was some kind of internal identifier, which was the same between the two variants of the app, but I guess that identifier is just (a hash of?) the public key. Nevertheless, it seems like the Play Store had priority for providing updates.
Tangentially, how does Android handle signing key rotation/expiration?
Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge
#520I've been pretty anti-google on this topic (and a long time fdroid-lover). but this ruling is nuts to me, particularly where it says google "must give rival third-party app stores access to the full catalog of Google Play apps" I don't think we are going to see a healthy competitive marketplace with 4 years of chaos where every app store has the same apps, there's no curation at all or incentive structure for stores…
One counter-take to this is the web itself: There's no curation or incentive structure to the web, yet it thrives in ways far outpacing the walled garden app stores.
You already have the web on your phone. The sensible comparison for the (non-web) mobile app market is to the (non-web) desktop app market, and that's not a clear-cut improvement. I'd guess people currently have more mobile apps than desktop apps, just as you'd expect if the desktop app market were suffering due to lots of garbage/spam/malware from insufficient garden-walling.