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Boeing workers vote to strike

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Boeing workers vote to strike

#511

Post by misiek08 »

wannacboatmovie wrote: post #402
Maken wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I seriously wonder how long it would take for a team of engineers to produce a competitive commercial airplane, from planning to the first prototype, if they started right now. Also, is it viable to produce something like the A320 in low quantities when airlines need fleets in the hundreds?

Designing an airplane and producing a prototype isn't terribly difficult and many thousands of companies have done this. The tricky part is designing the massive manufacturing apparatus around it that can produce them in volume (ask Elon how easy building cars is), satisfying the varying demands of hundreds of different airlines, many from developing nations, helping them set up financing, supporting the design in th…

I see this one as the saddest - if you are making good products the company will finally die. VW (with Audi and Porsche) failing to deliver quality products is the top group. Apple crushing iOS release after release and becoming trillion dollar company.

Maybe that’s just the way to live and lead the company and market and I just should stop dreaming about quality.

Re: Boeing workers vote to strike

#512

Post by asdf333 »

benced wrote: post #445

A lot of people here seem justifiably angry at Boeing management's total destruction of an engineering corporate culture. It's unclear to me if fixing that is what the machinists are demanding or if they just want normal union things like being paid more and working less. No hate if they are optimizing for that, unions don't exist to serve corporate culture. Just want to be clear-eyed about what the union is seeking…

unions are bad for our economy. they are monopolies in themselves

Re: Boeing workers vote to strike

#513

Post by elwell »

rtkwe wrote: post #452
cwmma wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, the negotiation team gets the best deal that can get that doesn't involving going on strike and they present that to the union which is then better informed for their vote.

Correct rejecting the companies "best and final" contract is basically par for the course in union negotiations. The company is banking on being able to outlast the strike to get a better deal than the union would otherwise agree to or betting on the government coming in an kneecapping the union and forcing the workers to accept a deal like happened with the ATC and train operator unions when they struck (striked? st…

> struck

"went on strike"

Re: Boeing workers vote to strike

#514

Post by mrgoldenbrown »

asdf333 wrote: post #512
benced wrote: post #445

A lot of people here seem justifiably angry at Boeing management's total destruction of an engineering corporate culture. It's unclear to me if fixing that is what the machinists are demanding or if they just want normal union things like being paid more and working less. No hate if they are optimizing for that, unions don't exist to serve corporate culture. Just want to be clear-eyed about what the union is seeking…

unions are bad for our economy. they are monopolies in themselves

Whose economy are they bad for? They are bad for the rich people's economy, and good for poor/middle class folk.

Re: Boeing workers vote to strike

#515

Post by plasmatix »

asdf333 wrote: post #512
benced wrote: post #445

A lot of people here seem justifiably angry at Boeing management's total destruction of an engineering corporate culture. It's unclear to me if fixing that is what the machinists are demanding or if they just want normal union things like being paid more and working less. No hate if they are optimizing for that, unions don't exist to serve corporate culture. Just want to be clear-eyed about what the union is seeking…

unions are bad for our economy. they are monopolies in themselves

I’m curious to know if you think unions are bad for the economy now, after everything they/labor have accomplished for worker rights in the last century, or if it’s those very things you consider bad for the economy?

Is child labor good for the economy? Maybe short term.

Are 16 hour workdays and subsistence pay good for the economy? That doesn’t make good consumers out of the employees.

Unions exist because people were subjected to brutal conditions and it seems very unlikely to me such conditions were conducive to a healthy economy.

Re: Boeing workers vote to strike

#516

Post by bonzini »

somenameforme wrote: post #382
toomuchtodo wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If 90% of startups fail, why would you think winning wasn't mostly chance? Regardless of how many people work hard and grind, you can still fail (and most do, that's just life). Some are more lucky than others, and capital begets capital. Once you've "won" enough, it becomes much harder to lose, even if you make terrible forward decisions and run off the inertia of past wins (Twitter). Bezos built Amazon, but also ha…

I don't entirely understand this logic. 99.9% of players that play competitive chess will never make master, but of course nobody would then say that becoming a chess master is just down to chance. What percent of startups are just bad ideas, outright cons, hair brained money-first schemes, or people entering into competitive domains (like eateries) without sufficient skill? IMO you're probably pushing 90% there! To…

To some extent it is. The current world chess champion was going to go to a xiangqi (Chinese chess) class and ended up by mistake at a chess class.

Re: Boeing workers vote to strike

#517

Post by bonzini »

WalterBright wrote: post #405
toomuchtodo wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If 90% of startups fail, why would you think winning wasn't mostly chance? Regardless of how many people work hard and grind, you can still fail (and most do, that's just life). Some are more lucky than others, and capital begets capital. Once you've "won" enough, it becomes much harder to lose, even if you make terrible forward decisions and run off the inertia of past wins (Twitter). Bezos built Amazon, but also ha…

Musk has had 3 huge successes - Paypal, Tesla, SpaceX. Having one such success might be luck. But when it's 3 times, dismissing it as luck is not very credible. The same goes for Steve Jobs. 3 enormous successes. And Bill Gates: 1. dominate 8 bit microcomputer software 2. pivot to 16 bit DOS. 3. pivot to 32 bit Windows. 4. pivot to internet. If you don't think that was a big deal, none of the other microcomputer soft…

Pivoting to internet didn't work great for Bill Gates. Nobody really used MSN other than for chat and possibly hotmail, the browser wars were lost, and the bulk of the revenue was done on Windows at the time Nardella took the helm. However Microsoft was big enough to afford a failure.

Re: Boeing workers vote to strike

#518

Post by charlie0 »

gosub100 wrote: post #371
jonhohle wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PayPal, Tesla, SpaceX,… how many times does someone “win the lottery” before it’s not actually chance? Not saying anyone can repeat it, or a random IC could leave and succeed, but that space seems ripe for disruption. (Maybe not passenger planes, but cargo with less liability.)

[flagged]

100%. Unfortunately, not all can separate the art from the artist.

Re: Boeing workers vote to strike

#519

Post by Dalewyn »

Dalewyn wrote: post #485
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By that measure what the hell was bombing Suleimani? Or moving our recognised capital of Israel to Jerusalem? Or arms to Saudi Arabia during their war with Yemen? Neither Trump nor Biden started a war. They had wars happening around them that we were to various degrees involved.

Here's a (kind of?) objective take: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_Uni... By my quick count, Obama (awarded the Nobel Peace Prize) started seven wars, Trump started zero wars, and Biden so far started one war. All three Presidents were involved in a war started by a predecessor. So, yeah. Trump started no wars, and he is the most rejected POTUS by the Powers That Be(tm) for that and other re…

Reading a bit more into the war started by Biden against the Houthis, I... didn't quite realize the Navy had straight up admitted we are weak and useless.

>“We’re sort of on the verge of the Houthis being able to mount the kinds of attacks that the U.S. can’t stop every time, and then we will start to see substantial damage. … If you let it fester, the Houthis are going to get to be a much more capable, competent, experienced force.”

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2024/06/16/navy-fac...

Worth noting, this is an entire USN carrier strike group. This is simply embarassing.

Re: Boeing workers vote to strike

#520

Post by bombcar »

MereInterest wrote: post #506
bombcar wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real problem with dividends is they're taxed at the corporate level (corporate income tax) and then taxed when distributed to the shareholders (the shareholders pay income tax on the dividend). Eliminating the double taxation of dividends would likely solve most of the buyback problems.

That sounds like a non sequitur. The same would be true of money spent on stock buybacks.

Even if it isn’t a business expense (it may be) the shareholder doesn’t have to sell his shares and so incurs no tax liability- that year.
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