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Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

nytimes.com

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Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#511

Post by munificent »

ein0p wrote: post #69
munificent wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you think it's because of whatever brain damage they may have encountered, or because they could not find meaning in their civilian lives? Why not both? One of the key challenges with taking care of humans is that we rarely have the luxury of having only a single problem at a time.

Because if we are to address this problem we have to identify the primary cause.

Many situations don't have a primary cause. There's no rule in the universe that says physical objects can always be decomposed into simple systems with a hierarchy of priorities.

If I break my leg and have COVID, I'm not going to be better until both of those problems are fixed and neither has any bearing on the other. There is no primary cause. There may be different levels of urgency, but some problems in the real world are just intrinsically messy and complex.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#512

Post by bdcravens »

Trow849fj wrote: post #432
jack_riminton wrote: post #404

A lot of special forces have been doing what we used to call "door kicking" in the last few wars. Lots of explosive breaches, firing weapons and throwing grenades indoors. I'm sure this is the main contributing factor. The percussive force of firing and explosives indoors is horrible and I say this as an ex artillery officer, so I'm used to chest-breaking bangs from firing big artillery guns

Any source for this? Artillery was around for 500 years and shell shock was hugely discussed for past 100 years. There is much better corellation with divorce. Soldiers returns home with PTSD, only to have their house, children, savings and pension stollen. Because they were not around to guard it! And they may get thrown into prison for being too poor! Shell shock is very convinient excuse, when victims do not get p…

It seems that all that's needed as a counterargument are soldiers with the same set of symptoms that remained married. Additionally, we could compare the divorced who were never exposed to such explosions and see how suicide rates compare.

In other words, data is always a better choice than narratives.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#513

Post by shkkmo »

vasco wrote: post #188
shkkmo wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a problem has multiple causes, only addressing one of them seem like a mistake.

That's the destructive wasteful thinking of "every little bit helps". 80/20 can be applied to almost everything and looking at the second top factor of anything is a waste of time until you properly looked at the first and can't do anymore.

I didn't say "every little bit helps".

"80/20" absolutely can't be applied to "almost everything" and assuming it can is lazy thinking.

Even if it does apply in this case, just because as secondary cause has 1/4 impact, that doesn't mean you should ignore it. Sometimes secondary causes have cost effective solutions that mean it is more efficient to address first. Simply ignoring this possibility like you are suggesting is not smart.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#514

Post by sofixa »

cjbgkagh wrote: post #497
sofixa wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia has been trying to conquer Ukraine for 2 years now, and has had very limited success. Things are looking so good for them they're importing North Korean troops and artillery shells. They have shown no serious improvement in military tactics or armaments. Meanwhile Ukraine is being armed by half the world, and has shown crazy advancements in unmanned tech (like hitting Russian ships with underwater unmanned veh…

Schrodinger's Russia, the Upper Volta with missiles simultaneously can't take Ukraine yet also at risk of taking half of Europe. Ignoring the details of your statement I will instead focus on the inherent contradiction of using the slow pace of advancement as evidence of lack of prowess at the same time as confidently stating that gorilla warfare would render such actions a Pyrrhic victory. I would suggest that maybe…

> I would suggest that maybe Russia knows that, they dealt with a serious insurgency in Chechnya. I would also suggest that the slow progress is in part intentional in order to maintain defined battlefield lines and avoid such insurgencies. They know it costs more in Russian lives but that is price they are willing to pay. People who want to fight them can go out and meet them on the battlefield.

Oh, you're either very naive, very stupid, or Russian. You mean to tell me that when Putin announced a 3 day special military operation, it was on purpose that it's taking 2 years of a meatgrinder with hundreds of thousands of Russian casualties to take barely any land? Cool, makes sense if you're braindead.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#515

Post by _DeadFred_ »

hinkley wrote: post #507
__s wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Concussion is a film about football players & suicide

Depression is a lot like being drunk. There’s a point where you wish you could puke and get it over with but it’s just not happening. As I understand it there’s a lot of ex football players in this state. Just hopelessly miserable but not on suicide watch. Or on their way to Parkinson’s.

They need to implement weight limits in football just like are in use in most other contact sports. You don't force boxers to go up against guys 50+ lbs heavier than they are, over and over, daily in practice and weekly in games.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#516

Post by exe34 »

immibis wrote: post #288
exe34 wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i thought the "gender pay gap" was due to different jobs and amount of time worked - otherwise companies would hire only women and have to pay out way less in wages.

It could be, but is that really an excuse? I mean, one couldn't really justify the pay gap in slavery by saying the slaves were working different jobs to the free people, either.

I myself work part time for mental health reasons - do you think I should get a full time salary?

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#517

Post by throwaway22032 »

The_Colonel wrote: post #161
throwaway22032 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't sound like discrimination, it is discrimination, tautologically. The onus is on you to show that it is bad in this case. We discriminate routinely, children are exempt from working for example.

I believe in the specific case of gender equality, the burden of proof is on the side which claims that discrimination is justified.

Well that's a bit daft, as men and women are as different as green and blue.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#518

Post by cjbgkagh »

sofixa wrote: post #514
cjbgkagh wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Schrodinger's Russia, the Upper Volta with missiles simultaneously can't take Ukraine yet also at risk of taking half of Europe. Ignoring the details of your statement I will instead focus on the inherent contradiction of using the slow pace of advancement as evidence of lack of prowess at the same time as confidently stating that gorilla warfare would render such actions a Pyrrhic victory. I would suggest that maybe…

> I would suggest that maybe Russia knows that, they dealt with a serious insurgency in Chechnya. I would also suggest that the slow progress is in part intentional in order to maintain defined battlefield lines and avoid such insurgencies. They know it costs more in Russian lives but that is price they are willing to pay. People who want to fight them can go out and meet them on the battlefield. Oh, you're either ve…

They also said they would not invade and then they did. You don't tell people what you're actually going to do for a whole raft of reasons and it would be foolish to do so. Also, did they say they would take it in 3 days? That was General Milley (US) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39155605. That's the problem with trusting Western media. The West ascribes these metrics and then judges the Russian results by the same metrics using it as an opportunity to call them fools.

Russia has been planning for this war since before 2008 it is ridiculous to think that they thought it would only take 3 days, if they did they would have started the war much sooner. They knew there were in for the long haul and had already made steps to prepare their economy for long term sanctions. There were not completely prepared but prepared enough.

Additionally, this conflict sits within a broader US/China conflict and a long drawn out conflict with Russia benefits China to which Russia is largely a vassal state, now more so than ever. China is prepping for a great powers war and understandably would like to undermine the west substantially before that happens. Bogging the west down in a series of regional conflicts is an effective way to do that. China would much rather their adversaries economically implode than to fight a massively destructive WWIII.

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#519

Post by squirclepants »

TomK32 wrote: post #241
midjji wrote: post #230

If this is accurate there is likely very little to be done, and the solution will likely be to have less training and retire a decade sooner.

There's plenty to be done mostly in research: Regular checks on every solider after they had a blast that potentially affected their brain. Training can certainly be adapted as well as the gear that protects their heads and brains. I bet there's something of a gradient in the brain damage and not just a single event that causes it to go bad, the ages of those mentioned in the article are all within a decade. Reassign…

[dead]

Re: Pattern of brain damage is pervasive in Navy SEALs who died by suicide

#520

Post by maxglute »

exe34 wrote: post #204
lukan wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If we sent troops to Ukraine, Russia would be out within weeks, and we’d have less casualties than Iraq and Afghanistan, assuming Putin didn’t start nuking." Big assumption. Other options are also North Korea sending troops. Or Iran. Or while the US engages there, China uses the opportunity to take Taiwan. Geopolitics is complicated. No one wants a nuclear war, but at some point there is no more rationality, when a…

the US can fight three peer wars at the same time. that's their military doctrine.

>US can fight three peer

That's never been doctorine for the simple reason US hasn't had (near) peer rivals until PRC in last 30 years. Peak hyperpower US 90s doctorine was calibrated for 2 "major" wars, when major is with adversaries who were frankly all medium powers (IRAQ tier). Then in 00s-10s it shifted to 1 "major" war, 1 holding war, i.e. actively fight 1 major war, fix another major war in place so resources can shift to second war after active war. Now half the think tank writing is questioning if US can win in PRC backyard, where PRC is characterized either as near peer, pacing power, or peer. US doctorine right now is maybe can deter PRC until post 2030s "decade of concern" but right now US IndoPac posture in PRC backyard a tossup.

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