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Apple introduces M4 chip
511–520 of 1001 posts
Re: Apple introduces M4 chip
#512Together with next-generation ML accelerators in the CPU, the high-performance GPU, and higher-bandwidth unified memory, the Neural Engine makes M4 an outrageously powerful chip for AI. In case it is not abundantly clear by now: Apple's AI strategy is to put inference (and longer term even learning) on edge devices. This is completely coherent with their privacy-first strategy (which would be at odds with sending dat…
> This is completely coherent with their privacy-first strategy Apple has never been privacy-first in practice. They give you the illusion of privacy but in reality it's a closed-source system and you are forced to trust Apple with your data. They also make it a LOT harder than Android to execute your own MITM proxies to inspect what exact data is being sent about you by all of your apps including the OS itself.
You say that like open source isn't also an illusion of trust.
The reality is, there's too much to verify, and not enough interest for the "many eyeballs make all bugs shallow" argument.
We are, all of us, forced to trust, forced to go without the genuine capacity to verify. It's not great, and the best we can do is look for incentives and try to keep those aligned.
Re: Apple introduces M4 chip
#513Together with next-generation ML accelerators in the CPU, the high-performance GPU, and higher-bandwidth unified memory, the Neural Engine makes M4 an outrageously powerful chip for AI. In case it is not abundantly clear by now: Apple's AI strategy is to put inference (and longer term even learning) on edge devices. This is completely coherent with their privacy-first strategy (which would be at odds with sending dat…
I've been saying the same thing since ANE and the incredible new chips with shared ram, suddenly everyone could run capable local models - but then Apple decided to be catastrophically stingy once again putting ridiculous 8gb's of ram in these new iPads' and their new macbook air's destroying having a widespread "intelligent local siri" because now half the new generation can't run anything.
Apple is an amazing powerhouse but also disgustingly elitist and wasteful if not straight up vulgar in its profit motives. There's really zero idealism there despite their romantic and creative legacy.
There's always some straight idiotic limitations in their otherwise incredible machines, with no other purpose than to create planned obsolescence, "PRO" exclusivity and piles e-waste.
Re: Apple introduces M4 chip
#514Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, that would be great. But without the ability for us to verify this who's to say they won't use the edge resources(your computer and electricity) to process data(your data) and then send the results to their data center? It would certainly save them a lot of money.
When you can do all inference at the edge, you can keep it disconnected from the network if you don't trust the data handling. I happen to think they wouldn't, simply because sending this data back to Apple in any form that they could digest it is not aligned with their current privacy-first strategies. But if they make a device that still works if it stays disconnected, the neat thing is that you can just...keep it…
Except that's an unreasonable scenario for a smart phone. It doesn't prove that the minute the user goes online it won't be egressing data willingly or not.
Re: Apple introduces M4 chip
#515The 256gb and 512gb models have 8gb of ram. The 1tb and 2tb models have 16gb. Not a fan of tying ram to storage. https://www.apple.com/ipad-pro/specs/
I don't think it's strictly for price gouging/segmentation purposes. On the Macbooks (running MacOS), RAM has been used as data cache to speed up data read/write performance until the actual SSD storage operation completes. It makes sense for Apple to account for with higher RAM spec for the 1TB/2TB configurations.
Shouldn't the required cache size be dependent on throughput more so than disk size? It does not necessarily seem like you'd need a bigger write cache if the disk is bigger, people who have a 2TB drive don't read/write 2x as much in a given time as those with a 1TB drive. Or am I missing something?
Re: Apple introduces M4 chip
#516Earlier quoted context omitted.
Apple usually massively exaggerates their tech spec comparison - is it REALLY half the power use of all times (so we'll get double the battery life) or is it half the power use in some scenarios (so we'll get like... 15% more battery life total) ?
IME Apple has always been the most honest when it makes performance claims. LIke when they said an Macbook Air would last 10+ hours and third-party reviewers would get 8-9+ hours. All the while, Dell or HP would claim 19 hours and you'd be lucky to get 2 eg [1]. As for CPU power use, of course that doesn't translate into doubling battery life because there are other components. And yes, it seems the OLED display uses…
Maybe for battery life, but definitely not when it comes to CPU/GPU performance. Tbf, no chip company is, but Apple is particularly egregious. Their charts assume best case multi-core performance when users rarely ever use all cores at once. They'd have you thinking it's the equivalent of a 3090 or that you get double the frames you did before when the reality is more like 10% gains.
Re: Apple introduces M4 chip
#517Earlier quoted context omitted.
The fact that TSMC publishes their own metrics and target goals for each node makes it straightforward to compare the transistor density, power efficiency, etc. The most interesting aspect of the M4 is simply it's debuting on the iPad lineup, whereas historically it's always been on the iPhone (for A-series) and Macbook (for M-series). Makes sense given low expected yielded for the newest node for one of Apple's lowe…
iPads are actually much higher volume than Macs. Apple sells about 2x to 3x as many tablets as laptops. Of course, phones dwarf both.
iPads as a product line sure, but the M4 is only in the Pros at the moment which are likely lower volume than the MacBook Air.
Re: Apple introduces M4 chip
#518Together with next-generation ML accelerators in the CPU, the high-performance GPU, and higher-bandwidth unified memory, the Neural Engine makes M4 an outrageously powerful chip for AI. In case it is not abundantly clear by now: Apple's AI strategy is to put inference (and longer term even learning) on edge devices. This is completely coherent with their privacy-first strategy (which would be at odds with sending dat…
> This is completely coherent with their privacy-first strategy (which would be at odds with sending data up to the cloud for processing).
I mean yeah, that makes good marketing copy, but its more due to reducing latency and keeping running costs down.
but as this is mostly marketing fluff we'll need to actually see how it performs before casting judgment on how "revolutionary" it is.
Re: Apple introduces M4 chip
#519Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This is completely coherent with their privacy-first strategy Apple has never been privacy-first in practice. They give you the illusion of privacy but in reality it's a closed-source system and you are forced to trust Apple with your data. They also make it a LOT harder than Android to execute your own MITM proxies to inspect what exact data is being sent about you by all of your apps including the OS itself.
You say that like open source isn't also an illusion of trust. The reality is, there's too much to verify, and not enough interest for the "many eyeballs make all bugs shallow" argument. We are, all of us, forced to trust, forced to go without the genuine capacity to verify. It's not great, and the best we can do is look for incentives and try to keep those aligned.
I don't agree with relying on the many eyeballs argument for security, but from a privacy standpoint, I do think at least the availability of source to MY eyeballs, as well as the ability to modify, recompile, and deploy it, is better than "trust me bro I'm your uncle Steve Jobs and I know more about you than you but I'm a good guy".
If you want to, for example, compile a GPS-free version of Android that appears like it has GPS but in reality just sends fake coordinates to keep apps happy thinking they got actual permissions, it's fairly straightforward to make this edit, and you own the hardware so it's within your rights to do this.
Open-source is only part of it; in terms of privacy, being able to see what all is being sent in/out of my device is is arguably more important than open source. Closed source would be fine if they allowed me to easily inject my own root certificate for this purpose. If they aren't willing to do that, including a 1-click replacement of the certificates in various third-party, certificate-pinning apps that are themselves potential privacy risks, it's a fairly easy modification to any open source system.
A screen on my wall that flashes every JSON that gets sent out of hardware that I own should be my right.
Re: Apple introduces M4 chip
#520Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This is completely coherent with their privacy-first strategy Apple has never been privacy-first in practice. They give you the illusion of privacy but in reality it's a closed-source system and you are forced to trust Apple with your data. They also make it a LOT harder than Android to execute your own MITM proxies to inspect what exact data is being sent about you by all of your apps including the OS itself.
Yeah, given that they resisted putting RCS in iMessage so long, I am a bit skeptical about the whole privacy narrative. Especially when Apple's profit is at odds with user privacy.
From my understanding, the reason RCS was delayed is because Google's RCS was E2EE only in certain cases (both users using RCS). But also because Google's RCS runs through Google servers.
If Apple enabled RCS in messages back then, but the recipient was not using RCS, then Google now has the decrypted text message, even when RCS advertises itself as E2EE. With iMessage, at least I know all of my messages are E2EE when I see a blue bubble.
Even now, RCS is available on Android if using Google Messages. Yes, it's pre-installed on all phones, but OEMs aren't required to use it as the default. It opens up more privacy concerns because now I don't know if my messages are secure. At least with the green bubbles, I can assume that anything I send is not encrypted. With RCS, I can't be certain unless I verify the messaging app the recipient is using and hope they don't replace it with something else that doesn't support RCS.