Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account • Hacker News Board

Re: Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account

#511

Post by throwaway5959 » Sat, Mar 09, 2024, 4:23 AM UTC

dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #71

astlouis44 wrote: post #41

Amazing how fast this decision was reversed. It's truly awesome to see regulators standing up to walled gardens. This will greatly benefit both developers and consumers.

This is one of those things where there is only upside for everyone involved. Apple (and Google) need to be saved from themselves sometimes. Meanwhile the repeated reversals are making Apple look guilty and nefarious.

I don’t think the EU should be able to say what Apple or Google can or cannot do in terms of their products. You don’t see the US constantly fining Airbus.

Re: Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account

#512

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Mar 09, 2024, 4:25 AM UTC

sigmar wrote: post #272

g051051 wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unlikely that "regulators" had anything to do with it, given the quick resolution. I'd be more inclined to think that Epic went back to Apple hat-in-hand and begged to be let back in, probably promising to muzzle Sweeney.

>It's unlikely that "regulators" had anything to do with it, given the quick resolution. Disagree. EU regulators act quickly. Here's the commissioner for Internal Market of the Eu: "I take note with satisfaction that following our contacts Apple decided to backtrack its decision on Epic exclusion. From Day 2, #DMA is already showing very concrete results!" https://twitter.com/ThierryBreton/status/1766167580497117464

[deleted]

Re: Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account

#513

Post by throw10920 » Sat, Mar 09, 2024, 4:27 AM UTC

agust wrote: post #264

g051051 wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unlikely that "regulators" had anything to do with it, given the quick resolution. I'd be more inclined to think that Epic went back to Apple hat-in-hand and begged to be let back in, probably promising to muzzle Sweeney.

Sure, Apple takes a strong decision which breaks a just-enforced law, and two days later they back down because they had a nice talk with Epic. /s The EU told Apple that breaking the law would have dire consequences. That's the only reason Apple backed down. Stop spreading Apple propaganda.

> Stop spreading Apple propaganda.

Please don't try to start flame wars on HN. You should read the guidelines:

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account

#514

Post by bevekspldnw » Sat, Mar 09, 2024, 4:27 AM UTC

Aldo_MX wrote: post #499

bevekspldnw wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Precisely! This all about market competition which may both spur new technologies and lower prices for consumers. The entire point of DMA is to make sure platforms can’t use lock in to prevent others from joining the market for digital goods and services. What terrifies Apple isn’t Fortnite, it’s that Epic will make a *better* AppStore.

"better"? You're giving Epic too much credit. Just see the Play Store competitors like Samsung or Huawei: Full of ads, and in general a terrible experience.

Not saying they can: saying that’s Tim Apples worst nightmare.

Re: Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account

#515

Post by bevekspldnw » Sat, Mar 09, 2024, 4:27 AM UTC

idle_zealot wrote: post #490

sangnoir wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope the folk at Valve have been busy working on this - Steam for iOS and Vision Pro could be great!

VisionOS is not consider a gatekeeper my the DMA, and despite the platform supporting it Valve has made no effort to expand their game store to Android. It is doubtful that they will work on an iOS game distribution platform.

Same AppStore, and it runs iPad apps.

Re: Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account

#516

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Mar 09, 2024, 4:29 AM UTC

agust wrote: post #258

quitit wrote: post #235

Apple's statement: “Following conversations with Epic, they have committed to follow the rules, including our DMA policies. As a result, Epic Sweden AB has been permitted to re-sign the developer agreement and accepted into the Apple Developer Program.” If you think the EU got their shit together in 2 days, you're day dreaming. Phil Schiller invited Epic to make assurances that they'd follow the terms of the agreemen…

The EU reacted immediately and asked Apple for clarification. That means, they reminded Apple that the law is the law, which they seemed to have forgotten. You're the one dreaming if you think Apple got their shot together by themselves.

[deleted]

Re: Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account

#517

Post by smoldesu » Sat, Mar 09, 2024, 4:34 AM UTC

turquoisevar wrote: post #492

All parties involved want to flex their muscles and most here argue based on how impressed they are by the flexes displayed. Apple wants to show that they can’t be brought to their knees. Epic wants to show that they can get away with shit. The EU wants to show that they have teeth and are to be feared. In the meantime, the only organization with the actual final say, the CJEU, is off forgotten in these debates and i…

That's a very defensive interpretation of the events. All of the parties involved have complex motivations, as is made evident by whatever-the-fuck just happened over the past 24 hours.

Apple's instigating act was a last-minute reversal on the eve of the DMA, it was never going to go unnoticed. Right or wrong, an inquiry was issued and Epic's complaint was resolved - it's up to Apple to "respond" now. Despite your logic, I don't think it would be wise for Apple to see this as an opportunity to flex. Europe is not going to change their mind, and punishing Epic isn't worth the money they would make Apple anyways. It's less about flexing at this point, and more envisioning what a smart path forward even looks like for Apple in a post-DMA reality.

> The DMA doesn’t have provisions that would force parties to enter into an agreement

> Are we to believe that they’ve lost their appetite for their favorite meal?

So? Apple is seeing things if they think any of this will (or should) stop a motivated competitor. Turning this into bloodsport does not benefit the butchering pig, Apple's reversal here is easily explained as an act of self-preservation. Their initial stance was hardly defensible unless you could feel the $AAPL weighing down your performance index. Crushing Epic is not a reasonable goal given the extraordinary legal danger it exposes them to.

The Apple shareholders are not having their eyes light up with dollar-signs in light of the recent response. This is a dangerous and petty road to walk, with ostensibly no financial benefit and the possibility of setting a negative precedent.

Re: Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account

#518

Post by Brian_K_White » Sat, Mar 09, 2024, 4:39 AM UTC

freedomben wrote: post #438

mulmen wrote: post #372

Apple believes this is an existential threat and they are fighting against it as hard as they can. But is this a self-fulfilling prophecy? These actions come with a cost. This gives Epic visibility and it harms trust in Apple’s brand. How do they balance these costs against the perceived threat?

Does it harm trust in Apple's brand? From what I can gather, people who already love and trust Apple want them to do this. They view the status quo as better, and would likely lose trust if Apple didn't fight this as much as possible.

I think there are certainly some people like this, but only some.

I think there is these 2 things to consider:

Obviously this will change nothing for most people. Baseline, 99.9% people will not be doing anything different today than yesterday. I think the way Apple acts is ridiculous and outrageous, but I already thought that and already don't have an iphone. My wife doesn't even know who Epic is or anything about ios developers or 30% or any of that, and nothing is changing about her iphone. Nothing changes in either case.

But there will be some subset of current Apple customers who see these actions as exposing an attitude they don't want to reward, enough to stop being Apple customers. Maybe it's the latest thing that adds to the constant stream of other criticisms that they've always heard but have been just excusing or dismissing but eventually they see something they decide is "see enough smoke, maybe time to stop doubting there's a fire". It's not a large group but not zero either.

But will there ever be anyone that goes the other way? Is there any such thing as a current Android user who sees Apple do this, and specifically because of the way Apple treats developers, that convinces them to switch TO Apple? Well there's at least one of every imaginable freak out there but there certainly can't be a class of these.

Re: Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account

#519

Post by Brian_K_White » Sat, Mar 09, 2024, 4:45 AM UTC

Clown car.

They were a threat yesterday, but they're not a threat today?

They weren't a threat yesterday either but, what, an automated process or a rogue intern wrote those pr statements? You leave the keys to those accounts just lying around for any flunky to post from like that?

There is no non-clown-car way to explain it away.

Re: Epic says Apple will reinstate developer account

#520

Post by dkjaudyeqooe » Sat, Mar 09, 2024, 4:52 AM UTC

throwaway5959 wrote: post #511

dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of those things where there is only upside for everyone involved. Apple (and Google) need to be saved from themselves sometimes. Meanwhile the repeated reversals are making Apple look guilty and nefarious.

I don’t think the EU should be able to say what Apple or Google can or cannot do in terms of their products. You don’t see the US constantly fining Airbus.

Why not? They tell US car makers what their products should do. The same for fruit growers, clothes makers and thousands of other businesses selling into the common market. It's called regulation and it's a normal part of modern life.

We're a society of laws and they apply equally to everyone. If you don't like the laws either vote accordingly, talk to your representative, organise a political action, or leave for a more agreeable jurisdiction.

Also, the US fined Airbus $582 million in 2020.