Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel • Hacker News Board

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#511

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jan 20, 2024, 2:55 AM UTC

themacguffinman wrote: post #310

eropple wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really see how this follows. A perfectly reasonable option that doesn't affect your use case at all would be "don't charge a customer who didn't use the service during that period." AWS doesn't charge me for an empty S3 bucket, Netflix shouldn't charge for zero minutes of video watched that month. Simple as! The downside, of course, is that this does mean you can't ride the Personal Responsibility bicycle and…

It screws over other use cases because it changes the economics of these streaming services. Monthly subscriptions for media, especially ones like Netflix, account for bingeing followed by dead periods amortized into the monthly price. Only counting active periods will break that amortization and the monthly price increases as a result. If someone doesn't binge and their lifestyle includes watching things more consis…

[deleted]

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#512

Post by gmd63 » Sat, Jan 20, 2024, 2:58 AM UTC

Alupis wrote: post #128

eropple wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really see how this follows. A perfectly reasonable option that doesn't affect your use case at all would be "don't charge a customer who didn't use the service during that period." AWS doesn't charge me for an empty S3 bucket, Netflix shouldn't charge for zero minutes of video watched that month. Simple as! The downside, of course, is that this does mean you can't ride the Personal Responsibility bicycle and…

What's wrong with people putting on their adulting pants and actually being responsible? Why outsource personal responsibility to a third party? That seems, absurd. "Frazzled and overloaded" is not an excuse for not looking at your bank account one time in 6 months or longer. That's just plain old fashioned irresponsible. If you are at a stage in life where a $10 subscription is hurting, then it stands to reason you…

Because with great power should come great responsibility, yet for some reason we allow giant companies who literally study your behaviors to exploit them to get away with charging you for services you didn't use, when it's trivially easy for them to know when you didn't use them.

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#513

Post by gmd63 » Sat, Jan 20, 2024, 3:01 AM UTC

dayjaby wrote: post #390

jjav wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you are at a stage in life where a $10 subscription is hurting, then it stands to reason you should monitor those things. Unfortunately people for whom $10/mo hurts are usually working three part time jobs while also trying to get the kids to/from school and take care of them. So I can see why they might not have time.

A monthly financial review doesn't take longer than 10 minutes. So you are suggesting that these three part time jobs offer more than $60/h and thus are more valuable than a 10 minute finance review where you identify your misspending of $10/mo?

You can check to see if thousands of customers actually used a subscription service last month in less than one second, and automate it

Why not point this logic to companies and ask them to do this for their customers? Surely you can see the value in saving every one of your customers 10 minutes.

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#514

Post by plasma_beam » Sat, Jan 20, 2024, 3:01 AM UTC

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #381

wolverine876 wrote: post #64

The blame falls also on businesses which take money for services they don't deliver. They often know, and otherwise often could know, when subscribers are not using the service. If you're a business, you should earn your revenue, otherwise you are frauds. This particular behavior is little better than taking money and simply refusing to provide service. Don't tell me it's unintentional - you know what's happening and…

"It should be shame that also falls on them, but somehow we give businesses a pass." I have always viewed the push for "subscriptions" as a business model by so-called "tech" companies with suspicion. Looks like it was warranted. Forgetting to cancel is part of the scheme. A friend of mine once worked briefly for a direct marketing company many, many years ago, pre-www. He said they knew a certain percentage would fo…

I wonder how many people bought a peacock subscription last weekend for the nfl wild card game then forgot to cancel it after.

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#515

Post by blakeburch » Sat, Jan 20, 2024, 3:03 AM UTC

TheCaptain4815 wrote: post #283

For anyone trying to avoid this, sign up to Personal Capital (bought out by empower or something), link up ALL your bank accounts, credit cards, etc. Then once a month go in and check every single line item charge and ensure the charge was properly labeled. Now if a companies autocharge is extra sketchy, such as not informing you about auto pay, enabling it automatically, etc, just threaten a chargeback when contacti…

I would suggest something like [LunchMoney](https://lunchmoney.app/) instead. Built in budgeting, rules to classify payments, and recurring subscriptions are automatically found and called out.

I had a bunch of issues with Personal Capital connections continuously messing up and there's no way to classify and evaluate the purchases.

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#516

Post by nytesky » Sat, Jan 20, 2024, 3:03 AM UTC

Alupis wrote: post #128

eropple wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really see how this follows. A perfectly reasonable option that doesn't affect your use case at all would be "don't charge a customer who didn't use the service during that period." AWS doesn't charge me for an empty S3 bucket, Netflix shouldn't charge for zero minutes of video watched that month. Simple as! The downside, of course, is that this does mean you can't ride the Personal Responsibility bicycle and…

What's wrong with people putting on their adulting pants and actually being responsible? Why outsource personal responsibility to a third party? That seems, absurd. "Frazzled and overloaded" is not an excuse for not looking at your bank account one time in 6 months or longer. That's just plain old fashioned irresponsible. If you are at a stage in life where a $10 subscription is hurting, then it stands to reason you…

Do you have a family, with 2-3 adult users of credit cards?

We have pages and pages of charges each month, between groceries, camps, classes, school fees, school projects, birthday gifts, and now and then a teen grabbing coffee with friends.

I usually looks the bill quickly and see if there are any large purchases unexplained for, and of course credit card descriptions are very opaque sometimes. Noticing that month to month we had a Peacock subscription that someone signed up for as a promo, and never watched again, means I need to notice the one charge on page 3 AND poll all the family that yes no one watches.

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#517

Post by gmd63 » Sat, Jan 20, 2024, 3:04 AM UTC

robertlagrant wrote: post #452

ozim wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s wrong with people who have no legs, can’t they just put their adulting pants and start walking? Cool that you are mentally and physically fit, I am as well. But there are lots of people who struggle with range of mental disorders or disabilities. Some might have depression some might have ADHD, some might just be much more forgetful so they might think it is good to check account balance but 30 mins later they…

If you think that services should start unsubscribing people just in case they have ADHD, that seems a very odd way round to think. They're just businesses. I don't think it's reasonable to assume they can know what you want or intend.

It's pretty **** easy to infer that a customer wants to save money when possible

That businesses and advocates play dumb when it comes to this basic fact is no longer astonishing to me, sadly

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#518

Post by andrecarini » Sat, Jan 20, 2024, 3:08 AM UTC

Alupis wrote: post #115

wolverine876 wrote: post #64

The blame falls also on businesses which take money for services they don't deliver. They often know, and otherwise often could know, when subscribers are not using the service. If you're a business, you should earn your revenue, otherwise you are frauds. This particular behavior is little better than taking money and simply refusing to provide service. Don't tell me it's unintentional - you know what's happening and…

> The blame falls also on businesses which take money for services they don't deliver. They often know, and otherwise often could know, when subscribers are not using the service. If you're a business, you should earn your revenue, otherwise you are frauds. I disagree. I routinely go months in between using some of my various subscriptions - be it Netflix, Hulu, Audible, etc. I would be very upset if they cancelled o…

I believe your use case is not impacted by the changes proposed in this thread.

Additionally, hard disagree on your conclusions since it's not about being responsible or not; it's about the process of cancelling subscriptions being convoluted, unfriendly and filled with dark patterns.

Here's an alternate proposition: what if you could quickly and easily cancel any unwanted subscriptions directly through your banking app? Right there next to your expenses statements? What if we took it even further such that you could not only cancel right there but even request a refund for unused billing periods?

And taking it to an absurd extreme: what if you suddenly went into a coma and woke up 50 years later to a large bill from a subscription service you didn't use all this time? Was it a lack of personal responsibility?

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#519

Post by mportela » Sat, Jan 20, 2024, 3:09 AM UTC

javajosh wrote: post #446

dcotter wrote: post #372

I'm surprised literally no one suggested just cancelling the vast majority of your subscription services and cutting ties with unethical companies. The suggestion that poor people need yet more help from the government because they're too dumb, busy, or gullible to know when they're about to get screwed is condescending. The suggestion that the core audience of WSJ and HN needs this is pitiful. Want to watch a movie?…

Do 30-day trials and put a reminder in your calendar to cancel with the URL to do so. Make this a habit. Yes, subscriptions are a dark pattern but the minimal amount of effort to avoid being charged in some circumstances (not gyms) seems like a small thing. That said, the world would indeed be a better place if businesses didn't charge you for service they weren't providing. Although you might model these monthly sub…

What I do is canceling the trial immediately after subscribing for it. Most services will let you finish the trial period and you won't risk forgetting to cancel it and paying for another billing cycle.

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#520

Post by gmd63 » Sat, Jan 20, 2024, 3:17 AM UTC

Alupis wrote: post #115

wolverine876 wrote: post #64

The blame falls also on businesses which take money for services they don't deliver. They often know, and otherwise often could know, when subscribers are not using the service. If you're a business, you should earn your revenue, otherwise you are frauds. This particular behavior is little better than taking money and simply refusing to provide service. Don't tell me it's unintentional - you know what's happening and…

> The blame falls also on businesses which take money for services they don't deliver. They often know, and otherwise often could know, when subscribers are not using the service. If you're a business, you should earn your revenue, otherwise you are frauds. I disagree. I routinely go months in between using some of my various subscriptions - be it Netflix, Hulu, Audible, etc. I would be very upset if they cancelled o…

I expect you to take personal responsibility for your belongings while you're at the office and someone wants to rob your house

Don't expect the police to track the guy down