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80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

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Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#511

Post by vitaflo »

mcv wrote: post #480
dboreham wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Discussions that should be 1:1 become 1:N, wasting the time of (N-1) people.

Discussions, yes, but discussions aren't for the standup meeting. Those are for informally updating everybody on what you're working on and whether you're stuck on anything. They lead to 1 on 1 meetings to solve those issues.

Anyone who cares what you’re working on can look at Jira. And if you’re stuck you shouldn’t be waiting for a meeting to tell people this. Standup are a total waste of time.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#512

Post by vitaflo »

stevezsa8 wrote: post #282
lamontcg wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find it funny that when people were required to be home, employers talked about what great productivity they were getting with people at home. Then when it isn't required anymore, they want everyone back in the office for...productivity. The decades of evidence that open office plans are utter shit for productivity already proved that the emperor wears no clothes and they have no idea what makes for better produc…

When we returned to the office, my boss decided even a single day WFH was frowned upon. Having to beg to stay home for a dentist appointment became a big ordeal. But my boss was a bit unhinged before covid. I found it funny that my lockdown productivity suddenly counted for nothing. I have friends at other companies who have been 3 days per week WFH for 2 years and really appreciate the flexibility.

Our team is still fully WFH even tho the corp expects us to come in 3 days min. My manager (and his manager) know we are waaaayyy more productive at home and don’t want to upset the apple cart so we don’t need to come in.

And I gotta say stuff like that gets me even more motivated to do work cuz I know they’re catching heat from the higher ups but we’re just producing too much work for them to really complain too much.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#513

Post by morby »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #119
tester756 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, you found simple solution for very complicated dynamic and you actually believe you solved this problem? I don't care about offices with doors. Sure, they're better, but still it doesn't solve my issues - I care about commute - time and money, especially time. I've been commuting like 3h / day before WFH and I don't want to go back unless you pay me at least 2.5x

I think this is a great comment. > I care about commute - time and money, especially time. I'm assuming you have done the whole draw a circle around where you live that represents your maximum willingness to commute and then apply for jobs in that circle thing? It was very popular in silicon valley during the dot com boom. When the commute circle comes up empty though, what do you do? Not snark, 100% serious. Hired a…

Sorry but I can’t help but feel this comment smacks of consultancy. The facts of WFH don’t align with management desires. Management may think it’s the business but the business is bigger than management. This is true in two ways: 1) employees make a business and 2) investors begin a business.

Employees are happy to have a work solution that works for them. If you want the talent to make them productive you should come to terms with reality that WFH jsut works for a lot of people.

Investors are happy when a company is making money and a company is making money when it’s employees (not its management) are productive. Employees are productive when they are given a work solution that works for them

Saying “put a door” on their office completely negates what makes employees happy to come work for you given the new reality.

Adapt or die.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#514

Post by throwaway892238 »

floucky wrote: post #320
throwaway892238 wrote: post #60

I decided I will never again work in an office, for the rest of my life. It's a lifestyle choice. I refuse to put up with the B.S. anymore. I'm lucky that I've had a long career and my skills are very much in demand, so I will always be able to find a remote job somewhere. People doing jobs with more qualified candidates in the pool will probably have a harder time, and that sucks. For them, I hope they can band toge…

Don't you think full remote is kind of selfish? I mean, I also love it, but what about new hires and junior? How are they going to learn and improve if each time they have a question, they need to post it on slack and just wait...

Nobody has the right to interrupt you while you are doing your job, to ask you any question they feel like, at any time. They can talk to you when you have office hours, they can schedule a meeting to talk to you, they can post it on slack, or they can interrupt you for critical concerns.

The lack of structured times to communicate and collaborate is a big reason working from an office is counter-productive.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#515

Post by throwaway892238 »

commonlisp94 wrote: post #448
throwaway892238 wrote: post #60

I decided I will never again work in an office, for the rest of my life. It's a lifestyle choice. I refuse to put up with the B.S. anymore. I'm lucky that I've had a long career and my skills are very much in demand, so I will always be able to find a remote job somewhere. People doing jobs with more qualified candidates in the pool will probably have a harder time, and that sucks. For them, I hope they can band toge…

> I'm lucky that I've had a long career and my skills are very much in demand, so I will always be able to find a remote job somewhere. Yep, this is exactly who WFH benefits, and nobody else.

Uh? WFH benefits a whole lot of people:

- The people who need to stay home to take care of their children and family members.

- The companies who can't find [good] enough local talent, or can't afford them.

- The people who can't find jobs locally and cannot move, due to financial, familial, environmental, or other reasons.

- People with diverse needs who require a flexible schedule and safe space.

- People who live in dangerous places where commuting could put them at increased risk. (see: can't move because of X) (also: commuting is actively dangerous to your health; constant sitting, danger of traffic collisions, being robbed at bus stops, etc)

- Anyone who wants to live in a cheaper, less dangerous city, or doesn't want to commute a long time.

WFH can benefit everyone, but they have to learn how to work a completely different way, and most people are lazy as hell so they don't.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#516

Post by skirmish »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #329
ornornor wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When I was required in the office, I would just wear headphones to avoid distractions Sometimes I just want silence. Not music, not $color noise. I also get itchy ears after wearing headphones for hours on end, and noise canceling headphones give me a headache… or, you know, I could work wherever I prefer, with little to no commute, and an office arranged how I like it.

The worst place I worked I needed industrial earplugs, then chuck white noise on top of that to get almost distraction free. The way to get the desired peace was to leave

I used to do that but then every 15 minutes some coworker would tap me on the shoulder to ask some inane question, and I would spend 5 minutes taking things out of my ears before I could hear them. Fun (not).

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#517

Post by doktorhladnjak »

troupe wrote: post #48
atleastoptimal wrote: post #15

I understand the merits of WFH and in-person work. One thing that is however funny is the guilt tripping used by employers who have this straw-man version of a lazy WFH employee, and more so, employers who have a delusion that their workplace is important enough that people need to sacrifice a large portion of their lives just for the opportunity to be there in person. 90% of jobs aren't people's "passions" and have…

I find it funny that when people were required to be home, employers talked about what great productivity they were getting with people at home. Then when it isn't required anymore, they want everyone back in the office for...productivity. My guess is that most employers really have no way to measure if an employee is being productive or not so managers are just reporting what makes them look good...and now we are ba…

The conditions aren't the same. When COVID caused many workplaces to go full WFH, most employees had nothing to do except work and hang out with those in their household. A lot of the increased productivity came from working instead of doing other things. Once things opened up, in aggregate they stopped working as many hours. Ultimately, it was never sustainable.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#518

Post by doktorhladnjak »

Alupis wrote: post #146
atleastoptimal wrote: post #15

I understand the merits of WFH and in-person work. One thing that is however funny is the guilt tripping used by employers who have this straw-man version of a lazy WFH employee, and more so, employers who have a delusion that their workplace is important enough that people need to sacrifice a large portion of their lives just for the opportunity to be there in person. 90% of jobs aren't people's "passions" and have…

There's a lot of nuance that isn't discussed in the WFH circles. I don't believe the cynical claims some offer of VC's losing out on real estate deals, or mid-level managers needing to boost their butts-in-seats numbers or whatever. For some, perhaps, but on average? What percentage of long-distance relationships work out long-term? Do you become more or less close with friends after they move out of town? Do you sti…

I agree the conspiracy theories don't add up. The potential benefits of WFH for employers are substantial. Lower real estate costs is direct money saved. Ability to recruit from a much larger candidate pool means they can hire faster and for lower salaries than otherwise.

There have to be meaningful downsides that CEOs and the like believe is outweighing all that.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#519

Post by throwaway892238 »

pharmakom wrote: post #424
throwaway892238 wrote: post #60

I decided I will never again work in an office, for the rest of my life. It's a lifestyle choice. I refuse to put up with the B.S. anymore. I'm lucky that I've had a long career and my skills are very much in demand, so I will always be able to find a remote job somewhere. People doing jobs with more qualified candidates in the pool will probably have a harder time, and that sucks. For them, I hope they can band toge…

How does it benefit the suits? what you just described is lower cost and higher productivity under WFH

Having butts at desks allows them to do things like manipulate people to stay at work longer (Google perks), monitor them closer, discriminate, and justify lavish office expenses that they want for image rather than productivity. They literally don't know how to manage work or workers so they just stick people in the same place because they only know how to use their eyeballs and ears.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#520

Post by dragonwriter »

mcv wrote: post #480
dboreham wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Discussions that should be 1:1 become 1:N, wasting the time of (N-1) people.

Discussions, yes, but discussions aren't for the standup meeting. Those are for informally updating everybody on what you're working on and whether you're stuck on anything. They lead to 1 on 1 meetings to solve those issues.

> Discussions, yes, but discussions aren't for the standup meeting.

What actually happens in a standup meeting tends to be a mix of:

(1) What theoretically belongs in a standup meeting, which is a meeting that should have been a kanban board plus identification of blockers that have been deferred for the standup rather than properly addressed when encountered and,

(2) tangents into discussions which should be 1:1 (this especially happens when blockers are discussed, because people want to help get them unstuck.)

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