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Apple Vision

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Re: Apple Vision

#511

Post by tootie »

scarface_74 wrote: post #398
tootie wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vertical integration/monopolism is part of it too. The money machine feeds everything else. They sell very high end hardware for uses that are beyond the needs of 99% of their market. I literally had a dream the other night that I still had my android phone from 5 years ago because it had an IR blaster I could use to control my TV. That's probably the last time a phone from any maker had a distinguishing feature wort…

Yes, Apple with 10% of the PC market and 50% of phone market in the US is a “monopoly” > That's probably the last time a phone from any maker had a distinguishing feature worth paying for. Yet people by new phones every year. Every TV to a first approximation is a smart TV where you can control everything with an app.

Apple has the entire top of the market. The amount of money transacted on iOS is probably 90% of the mobile market. Been that way at every company I've ever worked for. They mandate use of their app store, take a cut of app purchases, in-app purchases, require you build and develop on their workstations and pay a fee to install software on your own phone. They have a long history of monopolism or attempted monopolism when it comes to things like music, podcast and ebooks as well. They have >60% of the podcast listening audience as well.

Re: Apple Vision

#512

Post by gcr »

pixl97 wrote: post #417
retrocryptid wrote: post #323

So... what's the killer app for this thing? Best I can tell it's a status symbol for a particular type of computer nerd. But blather about the Apple "Vision" has replaced blather about GPT based chatbots on HN, so I am thankful for that. But I am not being facetious when I say that I don't see any application for the technology that justifies the $3500 price tag. But I'm more than willing to be educated. Is BMW going…

>Apple "Vision" has replaced blather about GPT based chatbots on HN Heh, this is where you're making a mistake... GPT agents + generated worlds + Apple Vision will be the blather in another year where people go into simulated realities to check out.

To be honest, I'm waiting for someone to train a backrooms-style environment based on NeRF to make horror games with these sorts of XR experiences.

As much as I hate all the bluster about chatGPT, an application like this could actually work. NeRF models are already fairly capable of generating indoor environments like this, and backrooms-style spaces lean on repetitive structured and uncanniness so having them be generated on-the-fly helps lean into the experience.

Imagine DeepDream (2015), but inside apple vision someday.

Heading toward whole new frontiers of traumatizing people.

Re: Apple Vision

#513

Post by theshrike79 »

birksherty wrote: post #507
bee_rider wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve kept in touch with some childhood friends digitally. And I’ve worked while in coffee shops and offices. I have much more authentic interactions with my friends over Discord than I do with strangers or pseudo-strangers in public. In public then interaction is intentionally inauthentic (which feels emotionally isolating to me, at least); the person wants to be nice to me to get a better tip, I want to be nice to m…

I have much more real and honest interaction meeting physically people whome I don't know from childhood. Online it's all a pretentious character acting.

I think this is a generational and medium thing. We clearly have different definitions of "Online".

I'm guessing your online communication is done via something that uses pictures and videos like Instagram or Snapchat?

My main communication to my friends has been text-based chat for over 20 years, and I do have real and honest communication with them. When we meet physically, we continue where we left off online. Even if people have changed hairstyles, gained/lost weight etc. I wouldn't know, we don't share pictures or videos of each other regularly.

Re: Apple Vision

#514

Post by o1y32 »

jmull wrote: post #328

Just a side issue, but... can we drop the VR vs. AR terminology now? It just leads to pointless arguments, e.g. about whether a person said VR when they meant AR, etc. and to the awkward MR and XR terms. How much is real and how much is virtual is inherently variable, and good devices (at least for general purpose usage) will make it quite fluid.

Thanks for saying this. It is getting ridiculous.

Apple saying they are doing AR which does not mean anything. If you use the headset as a big "projected computer screen" I doubt people really care if the actual surrounding is there or if that makes any difference.

Re: Apple Vision

#515

Post by throw74775 »

beezlebroxxxxxx wrote: post #454
throw74775 wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’re overthinking it. I was considering buying a new studio display for my Mac Studio. I have a single 4K display that is fine most of the time, but for serious work, I want more. That purchase is now on hold until I’ve tried Vision Pro. For just this application alone, Vision Pro is interesting. As well as a desk, my office has a sofa, and a round conference table. I like to be able to move from one to ano…

I might be overthinking it, but you also might be mistaking yourself for the general consumer when you're really a rather select consumer. I don't doubt that the product appeals to you and to a certain demographic, but will that transfer to a general popularity? I'm rather skeptical but open to be proven wrong. Personally, I think the "movie screen in a headset" is not the play. It's cool and novel at 3.5k, but will…

I’m not mistaking myself for the general consumer. I’m aware that it’s only one day after the keynote, and very few people are already thinking this far into how it might affect their lives, and I know this is because I have industry experience going back decades.

That said, this doesn’t matter. If the use cases I’m thinking of are actually served by the device, then that knowledge will spread organically, and people will buy it.

I agree that movie screen in a headset is not the play, that’s why it wasn’t my first example. My point is that if just a couple of the use cases are real, it will enable people to use their space differently, and that will be about as sticky as a product gets.

Re: Apple Vision

#516

Post by generalizations »

lolinder wrote: post #471
generalizations wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It better do more than project monitors. I’ll use it if the whole space around me is one big monitor for overlapping app windows. I want to throw my open apps in a pile to my right, shuffle through them to find what I need, push them all to the side to work on something else, and probably do the virtual equivalent of those meme conspiracy pins-and-string research boards.

From the keynote it looks like you can do that with iOS-style apps, but the Mac screen is treated as just one "app" for the spatial window manager.

Can confirm. I watched some of their developer videos for how to design apps, and it showed multiple safari windows side by side (though never more than two, equidistant from each other - no actual indication yet that we can overlap them). And it looks like we can push them farther away - though that will resize the apps, not just make them smaller.

Could actually be exactly what I've been hoping for since the first real VR stuff came out 10 years ago.

Re: Apple Vision

#517

Post by scarface_74 »

tootie wrote: post #511
scarface_74 wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Apple with 10% of the PC market and 50% of phone market in the US is a “monopoly” > That's probably the last time a phone from any maker had a distinguishing feature worth paying for. Yet people by new phones every year. Every TV to a first approximation is a smart TV where you can control everything with an app.

Apple has the entire top of the market. The amount of money transacted on iOS is probably 90% of the mobile market. Been that way at every company I've ever worked for. They mandate use of their app store, take a cut of app purchases, in-app purchases, require you build and develop on their workstations and pay a fee to install software on your own phone. They have a long history of monopolism or attempted monopolism…

Their podcast app accepts a url to any podcast feed anywhere on the web. Apple never stores the actual audio like Spotify and Google. They’ve also had a documented API that doesn’t require any API key to their podcast directory that other podcast apps can and do use since 2005.

As far as music, when the music industry wanted Apple to license its DRM to other players, Jobs posted “Thoughts on Music” to the front page of Apple.com where he tried to convince the record labels to license all music DRM free to all of the sellers.

Apple never had a monopoly on ebooks and was sued for letting the book sellers set their own prices.

The amount transacted on mobile is closer to 60/40 in Apple’s favor.

Re: Apple Vision

#518

Post by bmitc »

runjake wrote: post #379
bmitc wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple seems to have two modes they do quite well, create tomorrow, refine today. Isn't this a bit hyperbolic for a company that makes personal computers, smartphones, and tablets?

When I go out in public, everyone has their face plastered to their iPhones, while wearing AirPods and checking the time on their Apple Watch. So, no? Not hyperbolic?

By that logic, tobacco companies were also creating tomorrow and reinventing the today back in the early to mid-20th century.

Re: Apple Vision

#519

Post by ugh123 »

taeric wrote: post #371
ugh123 wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In their demos they clearly show the pairing up of controllers to play games.

Right, I didn't mean this to mean that it won't work. I meant it more that the gestures are almost certainly going to get very limited use. Much like gestures for your phone. Neat, and can be rehearsed for good demos. So, the idea that you will have a mobile workspace that can go with you where ever you want it is unlikely to actually work. Is it easier than taking a monitor? I mean, sure. Probably not as easy as tak…

I think Apple is making a statement regarding control of Vision in that _there is no one great solution_ for fine control using a peripheral device, and any attempt to do so could go outdated or obsolete with a different peripheral device. So why try to build one at all?

Many VR companies/devices have come up with their own takes on controllers, only to have them updated/replaced within subsequent models.

Apple is making the right choice by focusing heavily on non-peripheral control.

Re: Apple Vision

#520

Post by ugh123 »

cubefox wrote: post #508
ugh123 wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In their demos they clearly show the pairing up of controllers to play games.

Not with VR controllers. They didn't even show a single VR game. It seems unlikely that a company would make a VR game for the headset if you can't even play it without VR controllers. For smartphones and tablets games also default to the imprecise touch controls, which are a poor solution.

Apple is wise to leave controllers up to the accessory market to develop and evolve. Let those companies create the ecosystem for this singular device that might have limited opportunity to create accessories outside of head straps and battery packs.
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