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There's something off about LED bulbs

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Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#511

Post by Spivak »

simongray wrote: post #493
cal85 wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you can't tell the difference? For me it's huge. I recently changed my bathroom downlights from dimmable LEDs to dimmable halogens, and it's so much nicer. The colour temperature was the same, so I guess it's not that. It's something else about the way they work. I don't profess to know why, but I can absolutely tell the difference, and I have a very clear preference now. And this is after a decade of me bein…

I'm sorry, but to me you mostly just sound like an audiophile talking about how vinyl sounds better than CDs...

They sound different and that’s the point. There’s a whole genre of music that sounds like vinyl or staticy tapes. Clearly people like it.

People are going to express preferences for one or the other, telling people that LEDs are exact equivalents is just wrong.

We can say, “yes they’re different, but the environment is more important [1], suck it up” but it changes the tone.

[1] Which is such a joke, the waste from my electric stove or leaving the window open with the AC on uses more than the savings from LEDs. Halogens are already more expensive and you pay per watt so there’s not some horrible externality not being priced in.

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#512

Post by aftbit »

I'm still looking for an ideal LED bulb for use everywhere. I've mostly settled on Hyperikon. My desired specs:

  * A19 base
  * 2700K
  * 7-11W (at typical efficiencies, not sure about lumens)
  * dimmable with very high dynamic range (fully dimmed should be just barely lit)
  * good color rendering (high CRI / R9)
  * good PSU design for long life
  * flicker free under all circumstances
  * cheapish (
The irony is that there is a deep flashlight enthusiast community that focus on all of these specs (except maybe the high dynamic range), but when you look for A19 bulbs, they're all just using whatever is at Home Depot. :/

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#513

Post by QuarterReptile »

mhb wrote: post #77
QuarterReptile wrote: post #2

Non-dimmable bulbs are the author's problem. First, bans on incandescent bulbs are foolish because they encourage defeatist foolishness like this article (as far as I can tell, for the sake of virtue signaling and modest acceleration of a change that was already happening.) The CFLs which preceded LEDs were really awful, especially for closets (where they'll linger for decades, given the low utilization of those bulb…

> Non-dimmable LEDs are right up there with running toilets and rodents in the pantheon of things to make homeowners lose their minds. Really? I've never understood the affection for dimming lights. Essentially always I want lights on or off.

Sorry, I wasn't clear at all. The non-dimmable ones seem prone to flickering with changing voltage, and all grids have varying voltage. And then, at least if you're like me, you start thinking of all the broken things that might manifest in flickering lights.

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#514

Post by myko »

Agentlien wrote: post #246
phoyd wrote: post #168

>If you’re lucky, the LED will have a CRI of 90 or higher EU has banned incandescent lights years ago and the situation for LED buyers is much different here. My local drug store chain (Rossmann in Germany) sells 1000lm E27 bulbs under their own Rubin brand with CRI>97 for 4.99€. No flickering and available as 2700K or 4000K. My Opple Light Master 3 even reads CRI 100. So for me right now, it's just going to the drug…

I read a lot of the other comments here before yours and they all seemed to describe a reality very different from my own experience. Then I saw yours and it suddenly makes sense. I am also in the Europe, most other commenters seem to be from the US. Here I find it is very easy to find good LED bulbs with the strength and color profile of my choice and I have used LED in all rooms of my house for the last 10+ years w…

fwiw i am also in the US and never had an issue finding the right LED, which are far superior to the older bulbs in every way from my perspective

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#515

Post by smolder »

sp332 wrote: post #504
smolder wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at the fixtures you're putting them in and consider if they're getting adequate cooling. If your average "long lasting" (they all claim this, but not at what temperature...) LED bulb is uncomfortably hot to touch, it's on the fast track to failure.

Mine are hanging in thin air over my bathroom mirror. The GE Reveal bulbs say they're good for bathrooms, but I suspect they don't like the humidity. I have four at a time in the fixture and six of them have died in the last two years. Once this box is empty I'll get something else.

Ah, probably not a heat problem, then.

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#516

Post by jsmith45 »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #228
tomatotomato37 wrote: post #150

I hate how many of these things aren't limits of the technology but rather the result of cost optimization and general apathy towards the customer. We know how to mass-produce quality LEDs to the point entire TVs are made of the things. We know how to mass-produce rectifiers pretty much ever since diodes existed. We know how to cool mass-produced objects in compact spaces. But because we apparently can't have nice th…

You can go buy high CRI, high quality bulbs right now. Nothing is stopping you. Here is one common vendor: https://store.waveformlighting.com/collections/a19-bulbs/ The issue isn’t that MBAs have cost reduced bulbs for no reason. The issue is that 95% of consumers will only choose the cheap bulbs, period. As a result, that’s what gets produced at scale. > We know how to mass-produce quality LEDs to the point entire T…

I really wish i could find a brand that would reliably tick all the boxes:

- Does not overdrive the LEDs and Does not run power supply components at the limit of what they can. (Thus good longevity)

- Has a current based driver, so that slight voltage shifts from an appliance kicking on don't result in an obvious brightness shift.

- Suitable for use in recessed lighting or enclosed fixtures. (For better or worse, can lights and enclosed fixtures are still relatively common.)

- Makes bulbs in most common shapes like A19, chandelier, and PAR/BR shapes (for recessed lighting fixtures)

- Dimmable (And yes, I am quite well aware that being in conjunction with a current source driver is more complicated, but it is still possible). I'm not even particularly big on dimming, but I am big on smart switches, and many of those include dimming capabilities, and I don't want to worry about which bulbs I put where.

- Good color rendering index (and other similar features)

Even the linked companies products don't meet the full list. Their only dimmable A-series bulbs are the filament bulbs, which are not suitable for all use cases. Similarly, non of the non-filament bulbs in the A series shapes are marked as suitable for use in an enclosure.

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#517

Post by moogly »

formerly_proven wrote: post #24

There's a lot wrong with LEDs in general and retrofit (E27 bulbs) in particular. In no particular order - LED emitters driven hard for cost reasons, age and fail quickly - Power supplies driven hard for cost reasons, age and fail quickly - Poor CRI and SSRI - Flickering - Dim-to-warm is uncommon - Poorly designed power supplies that age and fail quickly - The same light quality is vastly more expensive to achieve wit…

To add a thing to the list: RF interference.

I wanted to upgrade the super faint positional lights in my two garage openers, and I need to stay The openers use rear car light bulbs, for some reason (BA15s).

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#518

Post by stasmo »

rootusrootus wrote: post #369
TheHypnotist wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you place those bulbs in the regular fluorescent "socket"? I bought a house and have a few burned out fluorescent looking long bulbs and I don't want to replace them with toxic bulbs.

Yes, but check the bulb . Some are compatible with the fluorescent ballast, but some expect you to use a fixture that has had the ballast removed. The trend is towards the latter, because they are more efficient.

A CFL ballast can be modified with a bypass by snipping a couple of wires and tying them to other wires. It takes 10 minutes and it’s reversible. I did it myself after watching a YouTube video. The LED t8 replacement was cheaper and brighter and used less electricity.

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#519

Post by HideousKojima »

BizarroLand wrote: post #472
amluto wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this falls apart in the details. LEDs want constant current power supplies, and their owners frequently want them to dim. So you will still need a power supply. You can fudge it with resisters like in an LED strip, but you lose efficiency and dimming quality. That being said, I expect that power supplies with 48VDC input or so would be cheaper.

Maybe this could be a prosumer retrofit thing, where the AC voltage gets converted to DC in the junction box, and then DC is sent down to the fixture. Probably with some sort of current sensing system to make it compatible with dimmers. Pair that with DC A19 LED bulbs that have no internal power systems. Probably expensive to put together and to install, but if the goal was to have LEDs that last longer, that would d…

>Maybe this could be a prosumer retrofit thing, where the AC voltage gets converted to DC in the junction box, and then DC is sent down to the fixture.

The problem is that in 99.99% of homes outlets are on the same circuits as light fixtures, you would need to do some major rewiring.

Re: There's something off about LED bulbs

#520

Post by sp332 »

smolder wrote: post #515
sp332 wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mine are hanging in thin air over my bathroom mirror. The GE Reveal bulbs say they're good for bathrooms, but I suspect they don't like the humidity. I have four at a time in the fixture and six of them have died in the last two years. Once this box is empty I'll get something else.

Ah, probably not a heat problem, then.

Oh, it's a good point to look out for. I'm just really annoyed at these.
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