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Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

congress.gov

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Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#511

Post by shepherdjerred »

n0tahacker wrote: post #442
gonehome wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The data isn’t the risk, it’s more the ability for CCP to leverage influence. https://stratechery.com/2020/the-tiktok-war/ Dialing up things to cause unrest, dialing down stuff critical of the CCP. It’s not an issue about data, or even an issue about speech, it’s an issue of ownership of a media company by an adversary that will weaponize it against you. Who controls and owns media companies is a reasonable national…

I think this attitude is wrong. A strong democracy doesn't need to fight "fake news" legally and doesn't need their own propaganda op in foreign states like Radio Free Asia etc. If you are banning foreign media in your own country, you are doing the same as China in the end. Why not establish a great firewall?

The United States does not have a strong democracy. Half (more or less) of the population believes the election was rigged.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#512

Post by stametseater »

iudqnolq wrote: post #96
kirse wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actual #1. TikTok is banned in China, but in their similar app (Douyin) their kids are limited to 40min a day and restricted from a lot of the digital opium drip that US kids are receiving in infinite quantities. Sounds like it'd only be fair to follow suit if China itself is limiting the poisoning of their own citizens: https://www.cnn.com/videos/business/2023/03/24/douyin-tiktok...

Only if you think a) the Chinese goverment is right and b) TikTok is notably worse than American social media. I, for example, disagree with both. I think the Chinese government is wrong about a lot of things, including the right way to raise kids. And I think TikTok is no worse than Instagram.

> "Only if you think the Chinese goverment is right"

Germany dropped bombs on the UK. The UK responded by dropping bombs on Germany. By responding in kind, was the UK therefore asserting that Germany was 'right' to drop bombs on the UK?

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#513

Post by kortilla »

di456 wrote: post #503

Yet congress won't do a fucking thing to keep guns away from child killers. Childhood education is one remaining basic social safety net and is more and more at risk with every school massacre. The mental health impact of kids, parents, and teachers having to worry about STAYING THE FUCK ALIVE IN SCHOOL EVERYDAY cannot be understated.

> The mental health impact of kids, parents, and teachers having to worry about STAYING THE FUCK ALIVE IN SCHOOL EVERYDAY cannot be understated.

Sounds like a problem with the media then. Ban coverage of shootings if people can’t behave rationally about risks.

Children are 1000x more likely to die in a car crash than a school shooting.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#514

Post by quacked »

withinboredom wrote: post #424
throwaway29812 wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anecdote Your experience is not everyones experience. For example, the country you describe has 0% resemblance to the one I know. Why should your experience matter more than mine? Are you actually proposing that your experiences are in some way typical ?

Every American expat I know has a similar-ish process where they have to get over the fear/anxiety from living in the US. It’s a proper dinner topic. So yes, I assume it’s typical. Perhaps not 1:1, but there are always similar elements. Edit to add: everyone says they never noticed it while living there. They only noticed it after the first few months/years when it was no longer present.

I don't think that other countries have had their social fabric broken down quite as far as Americans have. A big part of American fear is knowing that nearly every single person you interact with that isn't a friend of yours doesn't really consider you their "people". No matter what ethnicity or social class you come from, if you leave the house you're going to spend a lot of time around people that don't feel any particular loyalty to you, and you end up always watching your back. Can't trust the cops, can't trust the poor people, can't trust the rich people, don't know your neighbors that well, just keep your eyes on your phone.

(This isn't just a skin color thing, even white people in America have such diverse in-cultures that it feels bizarre to speak to some of them. Go down five houses in a richer white neighborhood and you will not typically find neighbors that share really common understanding among one another.)

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#515

Post by stametseater »

vetinari wrote: post #237
brigadier132 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are also ignoring the fact that China does not allow our social media companies to operate in their jurisdiction. So part of this is a sense of fairness. Why do they get to operate here if we can't operate there?

Because they have seen how EU's social media companies ended up. What EU's social media companies? Exactly.

If the EU considers America an adversary (perhaps they should), they would be wise to ban all American social media.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#516

Post by bigtex88 »

retinaros wrote: post #422
Dalewyn wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are able to write your comment criticizing the US government (Congress) because we follow the rule of law and that rule of law includes the 1st Amendment guarantee to freedom of speech and expression. China has no such protections and guarantees.

yeah ask how people who backed trump fared once he lost? ban from social circles, political oponents “tracking” the people who worked with him or under him so that “they never have jobs anymore”. its just one example. just like china, if you are on the bad side you don’t exist anymore. see assange.

None of this has anything to do with the government of the US but nice try.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#517

Post by dragonwriter »

shepherdjerred wrote: post #511
n0tahacker wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this attitude is wrong. A strong democracy doesn't need to fight "fake news" legally and doesn't need their own propaganda op in foreign states like Radio Free Asia etc. If you are banning foreign media in your own country, you are doing the same as China in the end. Why not establish a great firewall?

The United States does not have a strong democracy. Half (more or less) of the population believes the election was rigged.

> The United States does not have a strong democracy. Half (more or less) of the population believes the election was rigged.

From various recent polls, it looks like somewhere between 30-40%, somewhere under 2/3 of Republicans and Republican-leaners and basically no one else.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#518

Post by iudqnolq »

stametseater wrote: post #512
iudqnolq wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if you think a) the Chinese goverment is right and b) TikTok is notably worse than American social media. I, for example, disagree with both. I think the Chinese government is wrong about a lot of things, including the right way to raise kids. And I think TikTok is no worse than Instagram.

> "Only if you think the Chinese goverment is right" Germany dropped bombs on the UK. The UK responded by dropping bombs on Germany. By responding in kind, was the UK therefore asserting that Germany was 'right' to drop bombs on the UK?

You're taking my statement out of context. I was refuting the claim that China's restrictive social media policy is a justification for a similar US policy.

If the UK justified their actions solely on the basis that because the Germans did it it must be ok that'd be unreasonable. (This isn't the right forum to get into it, but the ethics of civilian saturation bombings are much more complicated and I'm not saying either was in the right, though of course in total Germany was far far worse).

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#519

Post by jsdeveloper »

n0tahacker wrote: post #442
gonehome wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The data isn’t the risk, it’s more the ability for CCP to leverage influence. https://stratechery.com/2020/the-tiktok-war/ Dialing up things to cause unrest, dialing down stuff critical of the CCP. It’s not an issue about data, or even an issue about speech, it’s an issue of ownership of a media company by an adversary that will weaponize it against you. Who controls and owns media companies is a reasonable national…

I think this attitude is wrong. A strong democracy doesn't need to fight "fake news" legally and doesn't need their own propaganda op in foreign states like Radio Free Asia etc. If you are banning foreign media in your own country, you are doing the same as China in the end. Why not establish a great firewall?

> A strong democracy doesn't need to fight "fake news" legally and doesn't need their own propaganda

your argument to me sounded like : > Brave people don't fear heights, you are brave and hence you should jump from empire state building. And you don't need protection, remember you are brave.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#520

Post by bigtex88 »

tomcar288 wrote: post #254
spogbiper wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

can you point out where the bill says this? I'm not practiced in reading this kind of thing and struggling to find it

FYI: i heard about that in a news article, I didn't actually read the bill.

How about not spreading around false information if you don't know wtf you're talking about?
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