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Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

economist.com

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Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#511

Post by s1artibartfast »

Apocryphon wrote: post #490
s1artibartfast wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it largely comes down to perspective, interests, and way of life. I honestly have trouble imagining a happy life without a vehicle. It enables me to go places I want to go, where there is no public transportation nor would I want there to be. On top of that, there's the utility of being able to build things like homes and shelter.

Car-sharing and ride-sharing exist now in addition to public transit. Vehicles can exist without personal ownership of one.

Yeah, I totally agree rentals exist. Maybe it is a semantics difference with what a post-car society means to people.

To me, it does not imply using a car as much as I do now and simply paying more to rent instead of owning.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#512

Post by harvey9 »

HPsquared wrote: post #464
throwaway71271 wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in the netherlands people just bike or take public transport, most of the time its faster than car (up to 12km or so bike is actually much faster) walk is actually fine as well

I don't understand how bike can be faster than car. Does it take a long time to get parked or something?

That statistic is in a specific context, I'd guess city driving in the daytime.

Nederlands has a lot of cycle infrastructure and is mostly flat so it's very convenient to ride. But lots of people still drive for all the usual practicality reasons.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#513

Post by 83 »

wffurr wrote: post #10

There's 138 trains per day between Amsterdam and The Hague. It's faster to take the train than to drive on that trip. Driving in either city in an exercise in frustration. Why would anyone in a rich country with a high functioning rail system like The Netherlands want to drive? I don't know how many rich countries that describes, but I lived happily for years in Boston in the USA without a car. I have one now but onl…

Not everyone want to spend their whole life in an urban environment. Perhaps there is not much opportunity for this in the Netherlands, but I can't imagine not having a vehicle to go camping/rock climbing/kayaking/mountain biking/hiking which requires going to remote areas not typically serviced by public transport.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#514

Post by Insanity »

usrusr wrote: post #343
overthemoon wrote: post #174

I'm an aging millennial, but on a purely personal level, when I lived in a city with good public transit, I was a lot happier, most of the time. I really like stepping off the train and the bus and being on my own two feet, the walking exercise, not being chained to this thing I have to worry about. I hate driving, I hate parking, I hate owning a car--the maintenance, the ongoing cost of fuel and insurance, all of it…

It really is a "the grass is bleaker on the other side" situation. As a public transport person I feel weirdly constrained by the idea that a day's itinerary will inevitably have to see me return to wherever the car is parked, impossible to do spontaneous things like walk a few stops, ride with an acquaintance or something like that that would eventually take me home, but not return to some previous stage. With a car…

I used public transportation (and cycling) throughout most of my twenties and only got my own car in my thirties. Public transport only works when you live in an urban area with good connections. Where I used to live, public transport was often delayed, or on strike. During winter it was annoying to have to wait in the cold for a bus or train that had 30+ minutes delay. And during rush hour the train and bus were so packed you could not sit down for most of the ride.

Meanwhile, with the car, I don't have any of those frustrations. During rush hour I'll sit in my car rather than waiting in the cold or standing up in a train. Given, finding parking can sometimes be frustrating, but it's a minor frustration. Going grocery shopping (or anything larger and heavier) is way more convenient with the car as well.

That said, bicycling is still one of my favourite ways to commute when the weather permits. :-)

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#515

Post by BrandonS113 »

mcv wrote: post #251
BrandonS113 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had to spend a few months in Holland for work. We we left with the problem of what do do on the weekends. You can't rent bikes if you are not Dutch, and visiting the lovely villages and other places Holland is full of is a time consuming exercise in futility unless one has a car. A train is great for Rotterdam-Hague-Amsterdam, not so good for visiting the Bosch museum in 's-Hertogenbosch. Holland has a great road s…

> You can't rent bikes if you are not Dutch Why not? Where are you trying to rent? There's bike rentals specifically aimed at tourists, and most people speak English reasonably well. > A train is great for Rotterdam-Hague-Amsterdam, not so good for visiting the Bosch museum in 's-Hertogenbosch. I just checked, and from Amsterdam, the train to that museum is actually slightly faster than a car. Though you do have a 15…

Yes, unfortunately were not exactly working in Amsterdam, and needed a tram to the local station and then a train to, perhaps Amsterdam.

That said, I would love to know why 's-Hertogenbosch is spelled that way. I asked a few locals, and none knew.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#517

Post by BizarreByte »

revscat wrote: post #221
BizarreByte wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> maintenance is expensive This is largely just nonsense for a lot of modern cars. I’m at 80k in 4 years and have only done oil changes and tyres. My mother only had her first “big” repair on her car at 140k after 10 years. Cars are more reliable than they’ve ever been.

Now add the cost of gas/petrol. For the average American that’s $3000/year. > more reliable So what? They are still a cost that is forced upon us. I don’t want a car. Yet I have to have one whether I like it or not.

You can move somewhere you don't require a car. If you're posting on HN that is likely well within your ability.

Gas does cost a decent amount, but it's also something you can control. Combine trips, drive less, and drive more tamely.

In my opinion the freedom and convenience of a car is worth the cost of fuel.

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#519

Post by [deleted] »

AlphaCharlie wrote: post #491
asciimov wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an aging millennial that grew up in West Texas, I have the exact opposite feelings. To me cars, equal freedom. I grew up in a small neighborhood, I rode bikes to my friends houses there but my neighborhood was so far removed from other places and stores that there was no other place to go. Getting my license at 16 opened so many doors for me. Now I could go hang out at my other friends houses that lived 10-15 mile…

Do you live in a low density area? I think your point of view aligns well with the idea that increased density and good alternative transit options lead to less need and want for cars. But rural and isolated areas can’t live without a car (or a credible alternative). As much as I’d like car to disappear, there’s a lot of use of it that we can’t replace without severely altering some of the population’s quality of lif…

[deleted]

Re: Throughout the rich world, the young are falling out of love with cars

#520

Post by warner25 »

stuckinhell wrote: post #493
overthemoon wrote: post #174

I'm an aging millennial, but on a purely personal level, when I lived in a city with good public transit, I was a lot happier, most of the time. I really like stepping off the train and the bus and being on my own two feet, the walking exercise, not being chained to this thing I have to worry about. I hate driving, I hate parking, I hate owning a car--the maintenance, the ongoing cost of fuel and insurance, all of it…

I'm an aging millennial as well. I love having a car! I can't imagine not having a car when you have KIDS! Driving them to their various sports games, with a car full of their equipment. Going camping with them. Getting groceries for a family of 5. I can't imagine doing that on public transport.

I think we can recognize the tremendous utility of something without having an emotional connection like love for it. I agree that I can't imagine not having a car with my four little kids. I also can't imagine not having laundry machines with four little kids, but I don't love my laundry machines; I'm not passionate about them. If you swapped them out with different but reasonably equivalent machines, I wouldn't even blink. Edited to add: And when I don't have four little kids anymore, I'd be happy to live car-free in a walkable city or use a laundry service.
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