Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#511

Post by hezralig » Sat, Jan 28, 2023, 9:56 PM UTC

vladimirralev wrote: post #95

The economy is just increasingly fake or rewarding foolish scummy behaviour instead of honest cooperative work. People coasted for 10+ years now on "passive income" from printed money along with almost no enforcement action against scams. That gave rise to a chain reaction of people trying to scam each other in a general revenge. Take for example a big slice of the economy - real estate. Honest real estate agents who…

I commented elsewhere but I studied Econ in college because it was a particular interest of mine. I hated it. I also wanted to understand it, so that I could know why it rubbed me the wrong way and live intentionally to push against it.

There was this moment when I was in a grad course and the professor was talking about self-optimizing markets. That's when it hit me. I literally stood up in the class, interrupted everything and went like "wait, the math isn't optimizing for income inequality". It was kind of funny watching more than 100 little economists in training suddenly start tearing apart the equation at once. You could literally hear the sound of frantic spreadsheeting and charting.

In the end, the professor himself said that it was true, you could achieve a fully "optimized" economy with literally everything being owned by a handful of people. Made me think.

How is a system supposed to be beneficial for us all when the mathematics at its core don't actually consider societal benefit?

If an economy is fully "optimized" but everyone is sick, sad, and angry - is it actually optimal?

A mathematical model can make sense without being sensible. This is why I have an implicit distrust of algorithms and other systems of optimization.

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#512

Post by ginvok » Sat, Jan 28, 2023, 9:57 PM UTC

Things are bad, but... things were always bad:

- Things in the past seemed better just because you didn't care enough and now you are becoming aware of it. - There were always wars, famine, diseases, poverty. You (or humanity) in general didn't care enough or couldn't care (information took longer to reach people). - Software were always bloated, but now we have machines that run faster, they had bugs but they were simple programs before. There were injustices in the area, they were not as common because there were a lot of less software engineer and methods for them to share their discontentment. - Things were always poisoned, because of the substance of the moment: Mercury, Lead, Asbestos, Plastics. - We already opened hole in the ozone layer, it's recovering, now we are heating up the planet.

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#513

Post by constantly » Sat, Jan 28, 2023, 9:57 PM UTC

Lots of my friends have been discussing and thinking the same things. Sounds like you’ve been feeling it too. Something is off. Plus everything you said, I feel like my clothes never wear as well the next day from the past, my hair never falls in quite the same way, and even my coffee tastes...wrong. Our institutions are crumbling, nobody trusts their neighbor anymore, and we stay up at night wondering to ourselves...How can we go back?

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#514

Post by bigtunacan » Sat, Jan 28, 2023, 9:57 PM UTC

Literally not one thing listed is a new. All of that had been going on for my entire life and I've been here about a half a century.

Seems like you are just finally noticing what's always been and are upset by it.

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#515

Post by paulpauper » Sat, Jan 28, 2023, 9:57 PM UTC

> Police seem to not give a shit anymore. I've noticed what seems to be total lawlessness going on in my world. Folks stealing shit. People driving absurdly dangerously in cars that are not designed to travel like that. (tailgating, lane switch, accelerating at the fastest I've ever seen a beat up Sentra do...) . I never see cops hit lights and sirens at them

People say this like a truism. Go to a store, like Walmart or Target, fill up a basket with some goods, and then not pay for it. See how well it works. I do noy endorse this, but may as well put your words where your mouth is. People make these blanket statements because they sound convicting or popular.

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#516

Post by robocat » Sat, Jan 28, 2023, 9:58 PM UTC

somethoughts wrote: post #229

noud wrote: post #7

I think you're way off base. It's called rosy retrospection, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosy_retrospection . As you already mentioned in your comments, you're judging the past disproportionately more positive that the present. If you really want to know if everything is declining, try measure it everyday for the next five years. For example, every day, rate your personal well being, track how (un)happy you are wit…

This is just personal but anytime I feel similar to the OP, I watch something by Hans Rosling [1] or Anna Rosling [2]. Although 10 and 5 years old respectively, I feel the general sentiment is still true - that human progress is slow, in the background and might be ebbing and flowing in your specific sub-population. And when compared to the present, media narrative driven present its hard to see the improvements happ…

> [2] See how the rest of the world lives, organized by income - Anna Rosling Rönnlund

Here's the link to view the photos by income:

https://www.gapminder.org/dollar-street

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#517

Post by ginvok » Sat, Jan 28, 2023, 9:59 PM UTC

MikeBattaglia wrote: post #424

noud wrote: post #7

I think you're way off base. It's called rosy retrospection, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosy_retrospection . As you already mentioned in your comments, you're judging the past disproportionately more positive that the present. If you really want to know if everything is declining, try measure it everyday for the next five years. For example, every day, rate your personal well being, track how (un)happy you are wit…

There are some pretty clear indications that the derivative of civilization is strongly negative at the moment, particularly if you live in Europe. Actually, the fact that people are supposed to pretend things are OK, while everyone over there is possibly a few steps away from being drafted into war, is another sign that things have headed in the wrong direction in exactly the manner OP is suggesting.

Uh, no? This is definitely an outside perspective.

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#518

Post by pjc50 » Sat, Jan 28, 2023, 9:59 PM UTC

MikeBattaglia wrote: post #424

noud wrote: post #7

I think you're way off base. It's called rosy retrospection, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosy_retrospection . As you already mentioned in your comments, you're judging the past disproportionately more positive that the present. If you really want to know if everything is declining, try measure it everyday for the next five years. For example, every day, rate your personal well being, track how (un)happy you are wit…

There are some pretty clear indications that the derivative of civilization is strongly negative at the moment, particularly if you live in Europe. Actually, the fact that people are supposed to pretend things are OK, while everyone over there is possibly a few steps away from being drafted into war, is another sign that things have headed in the wrong direction in exactly the manner OP is suggesting.

There was a huge negative spike around the invasion, but the bigger effect has been the rapid rise in fuel prices. Russia are now clearly losing and Russia is in less of a position to threaten.

Nobody in UK discourse is talking about conscription. Mind you, UK political discourse has gone increasingly off the rails with trying not to deal with corruption and incompetence of Tories.

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#519

Post by LAC-Tech » Sat, Jan 28, 2023, 9:59 PM UTC

noud wrote: post #7

I think you're way off base. It's called rosy retrospection, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosy_retrospection . As you already mentioned in your comments, you're judging the past disproportionately more positive that the present. If you really want to know if everything is declining, try measure it everyday for the next five years. For example, every day, rate your personal well being, track how (un)happy you are wit…

[flagged]

Re: Ask HN: Why Is Everything Declining?

#520

Post by djur » Sat, Jan 28, 2023, 10:00 PM UTC

HEmanZ wrote: post #428

cedws wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm 21 and I think everything's going to shit as well... is it doomerism or reality? Politicians appear increasingly corrupt and selfish. Geopolitics are becoming less stable. Innovation is coming to a standstill. The average person just wants a decent job, a nice place to live, and maybe a family. All of these are becoming more and more difficult to achieve. Is it any wonder kids are checking out of life en masse?

I want to call out that at least in the US, politicians actually appear way less corrupt than they used to be. Any reading of specific political histories, e.g Robert Caro, you can quickly get a feel for just how insanely corrupt politicians have been throughout history. If you compare them to today, it’s actually some relief. They are still corrupt today but really it’s child’s play compared to most of US history an…

If anything, the problem with modern-day politics is that politicians are too committed to their ideological beliefs and are not corrupt enough to be bribed into cooperation.