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We're going to need a lot of solar panels

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Re: We're going to need a lot of solar panels

#511

Post by walrus01 »

choeger wrote: post #367
Helmut10001 wrote: post #320

People both underestimate and overestimate what PV can do. In summer and around noon, here in western Europe, there is so much PV-electricity produced that it is _almost_ enough to fulfill all demands. In winter, the amount is like a drop in the desert. I have built a 30 kWp PV at home 2 years ago - you would think this is quite big, for a private plant. It is not enough. If I want to power a heat pump (with drilled…

I think with 30kWp you should be able to heat enough sand to make it over the winter. It's a matter of space and finding someone to build you that heat storage.

30KW STC rating of PV panels does not product much cumulative kWh at all in December and January at latitudes 40+. Forget the sand he just doesn't have the watt hours to run electric heaters at all.

Re: We're going to need a lot of solar panels

#512

Post by goodpoint »

illiac786 wrote: post #376
KingOfCoders wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure how "better insulation" is something "renewable enthusiasts conveniently forget". We need better insulation either way.

I think what this person meant is the renewable enthusiasts treat insulation as something easily done whereas it will take 100 years to insulate the majority of houses in Europe in my view…

> it will take 100 years to insulate the majority of houses in Europe

Citation needed. This number is absurd.

Re: We're going to need a lot of solar panels

#513

Post by affgrff2 »

anotherhue wrote: post #501
35mm wrote: post #499

I think electrolysing water into hydrogen using excess solar in the winter, then using that directly for heating in the winter would make a lot of sense.

Hydrogen is quite difficult to store, so one would have to factor those costs in the before deciding.

And not having to store it locally but pumping it in form of methane into the existing net could further reduce costs.

Re: We're going to need a lot of solar panels

#514

Post by illiac786 »

goodpoint wrote: post #512
illiac786 wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what this person meant is the renewable enthusiasts treat insulation as something easily done whereas it will take 100 years to insulate the majority of houses in Europe in my view…

> it will take 100 years to insulate the majority of houses in Europe Citation needed. This number is absurd.

No one can reliably predict this, this is my opinion simply. I thought that was clear.

Re: We're going to need a lot of solar panels

#515

Post by robertlagrant »

midasuni wrote: post #446
ekianjo wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> better insulation better insulation is not cheap and therefore not everyone can afford to do it. Also the same people who want renewables are usually opposed to building new housing so there's that.

In the U.K. the people who want renewables tend to be under 40s that can’t afford to buy a house. Those that actively don’t want renewables tend to own their own home and may have a couple the let out.

Pretty much no-one actively doesn't want renewables. They might not want them built very near them, but that's different.

Re: We're going to need a lot of solar panels

#516

Post by thomashop »

illiac786 wrote: post #455
yayachiken wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know you are just illustrating an opinion and not meaning it literally, but I want to stress how ridiculous your number of 100 years is in reality. The expected economic lifetime of a building in Germany is approximately 100 years. Which means that on average, the house will be torn down and rebuilt after at most 100 years, because additional upkeep would not make economic sense. This means that if you do not chang…

>The expected economic lifetime of a building in Germany is approximately 100 years Source? Counter examples: my house is built 1908. Lots of other houses built around the same time in the area I live in. My parents live in a house from 1749. The entire village where they live is made of houses built 200+ years ago, it's written on the house in general, hence easy to check. Hence I very much stand by my prediction it…

The person you responded to was talking about the whole of Germany. You're talking about one individual village.

Your sample size is too small to make generalisations.

Re: We're going to need a lot of solar panels

#517

Post by robertlagrant »

pydry wrote: post #483
Semaphor wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also the same people who want renewables are usually opposed to building new housing so there's that. What? Why would you think that?

Quoted post unavailable.

They want new housing but often built by the government instead of evil property developers.

Re: We're going to need a lot of solar panels

#518

Post by ncmncm »

Helmut10001 wrote: post #320

People both underestimate and overestimate what PV can do. In summer and around noon, here in western Europe, there is so much PV-electricity produced that it is _almost_ enough to fulfill all demands. In winter, the amount is like a drop in the desert. I have built a 30 kWp PV at home 2 years ago - you would think this is quite big, for a private plant. It is not enough. If I want to power a heat pump (with drilled…

Places without enough sun in the winter, and without enough wind, too, sometimes, will just import power. You might be able to draw down on HVDC transmission lines. But there will also be abundant solar farms in the tropics synthesizing ammonia for export. If the weather prediction says not enough wind, and your tanked ammonia would run low, and you can't book enough transmission line power, you just order a shipment, which will be substantially cheaper than NG, from anybody anywhere.

But you will have overbuilt a great deal of cheap solar capacity, because anytime it generates more than you can use, you can synthesize your own ammonia. First you fill your tanks, and then sell the rest.

In winter, the overbuild means you burn less of it. In summer, the excess ammonia will find an unlimited market because ammonia is so useful. It is fuel, it is fertilizer, it is refrigerant, it is feedstock for myriad chemical processes.

Re: We're going to need a lot of solar panels

#519

Post by pawsforthought »

wheelerof4te wrote: post #464

What people don't realize is that solar power is not enough to support industrial production. Neither is hydro and wind power. To have enough solar energy, you would need huge fields of panels where the sun shines bright. Panels block the sunlight beneath, so you can't plant anything where the panels are. On the other hand, you need space for agriculture. So, you see where the problem is. Large wind turbines also nee…

Agrivoltaics [1] has enormous potential.

[1]: https://www.ise.fraunhofer.de/content/dam/ise/en/documents/p...

Re: We're going to need a lot of solar panels

#520

Post by illiac786 »

thomashop wrote: post #516
illiac786 wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The expected economic lifetime of a building in Germany is approximately 100 years Source? Counter examples: my house is built 1908. Lots of other houses built around the same time in the area I live in. My parents live in a house from 1749. The entire village where they live is made of houses built 200+ years ago, it's written on the house in general, hence easy to check. Hence I very much stand by my prediction it…

The person you responded to was talking about the whole of Germany. You're talking about one individual village. Your sample size is too small to make generalisations.

What sample over whole Germany? There is no source, no sample, it’s a baseless statement.
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