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High property taxes are good

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Re: High property taxes are good

#511

Post by 8note »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #228
awillen wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like the point, though - the land tax makes it so that it is productive to add more density. We want people to demolish that SFH and turn it into a townhome because we need more housing, so that's a feature of the tax, not a bug.

> That seems like the point, though - the land tax makes it so that it is productive to add more density. It will still force density eventually as the home's structure value depreciates (demo costs are the same no matter how much the home is worth). Any new structures will be pushed into higher value uses. BUT let's say we instituted a blind land value tax tomorrow: many people would be forced out of their homes AND…

is it a problem that some people are losers in the new scheme? there are losers in the current scheme too

Re: High property taxes are good

#512

Post by monetus »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #509
fleddr wrote: post #384

I'm struggling to make sense of the cause and effect in the article: "The high cost of property taxes have long pushed away speculative investors as it has pushed the carrying cost beyond what is profitable to hold as a passive investment long-term." Alright, so now the speculative buyers are gone and we're dealing with ordinary home buyers that actually occupy their home. These genuine owners are paying high propert…

> If so, why not just get rid of speculative buying (simply make it illegal)? How do you propose to do that in the US?

Laws requiring occupancy before selling them? Just guessing.

Re: High property taxes are good

#514

Post by presentation »

danielheath wrote: post #507
fleddr wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because a suppression of price would also suppress new development? Why would a builder build anything in an area of low profitability, in a backdrop of rising costs and worker shortages? So how come there's ample low cost high quality housing in Chicago? The same remark applies to home owners. Your property won't rise in value, so why buy it? You must really want to live in the area, I guess. And yes, I know the poi…

> almost everywhere it has a double function in also being an appreciating retirement fund. That's true, but it's also a looming economic disaster as it prices out the younger generation and entrenches generational wealth. Chicago are famous for their highest rate of 2.5% per annum, grown smoothly over 15+ years. Thought experiment: What happens if the land value tax rate keeps growing smoothly? What does it look lik…

Sounds almost like "have the government own all the housing stock and rent it to the people"

Re: High property taxes are good

#515

Post by 8note »

mring33621 wrote: post #312
horsawlarway wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My strong suspicion is that this will completely fuck over the elderly and marginalized communities. It also requires property owners to do EXTENSIVE research and information gathering CONSTANTLY to ensure that the number they put down is reasonable. Many of them literally can't (ex: my 87 year old Neighbor Phylis doesn't care what her house is worth, because she plans to die in it, and isn't seeking to maximize util…

"It also requires property owners to do EXTENSIVE research and information gathering CONSTANTLY" Every year in Chicago. My house has been, and still is, assessed for 600K over what I paid in Nov. 2021. It had been on the market since 2016, until I bought it. The price I paid is the value of the house. First assessment appeal denied. Second appeal lost in the system. We have to fight against an unfair and arbitrary ta…

what could you sell it for though? what could you mortgage it for?

what you paid for it is irrelevant if people are buying the neighboring places for double or triple the price.

if it's worth so much more than you think, sell it

Re: High property taxes are good

#516

Post by chmod600 »

KerrAvon wrote: post #438
negamax wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What author is saying is that if a property has a high yearly ongoing costs, it becomes tougher to just hold onto it and not put it into the market i.e. this causes increase in supply. If I have a $10k/year expense on a property, I am forced to at least generate a yearly $10k+ from the property. This would keep the rentals and property prices in the area in check

The elephant in the room is the amount of housing supply being held by banks and private equity in an effort to shore up housing prices. They can afford high property taxes. Your elderly parents might not be able to. Obama should have let the bankers twist in the wind when the citizenry was out for blood in 2008. They repaid him by channeling money to Republicans. Put them all in jail.

"They repaid him by channeling money to Republicans."

I'm uncomfortable with this phrasing. Are you implying that the bailouts were some kind of quid pro quo?

Re: High property taxes are good

#517

Post by abruzzi »

zip1234 wrote: post #79
xhxhsjjsjsnz wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not just empty fields. It’s also empty buildings. A grocery store sized unit sat vacant in my San Francisco neighborhood for over a decade. Cheap property tax due to Prop 13. Owners wanted to wait for the “right offer” to develop it.

Many of the abandoned houses in Detroit are owned by speculators who will do nothing with it but wait for land prices to increase.

On the other hand, many of the vacants in Philadelphia are vacant because the owner has fled because the back taxes are more than the building is worth.

Re: High property taxes are good

#518

Post by cozzyd »

fleddr wrote: post #384

I'm struggling to make sense of the cause and effect in the article: "The high cost of property taxes have long pushed away speculative investors as it has pushed the carrying cost beyond what is profitable to hold as a passive investment long-term." Alright, so now the speculative buyers are gone and we're dealing with ordinary home buyers that actually occupy their home. These genuine owners are paying high propert…

I agree that the cause and effect is backwards, but for a different reason. High property values lead to lower property tax rates (but not necessarily dollar amounts). The total property tax is largely set by how much money is needed to provide services to a place, which is mostly independent of property values (though I guess stuff like building schools is more expensive if it costs more to buy the land). NYC also has a city income tax further lowering the amount of money that needs to be raised.

Re: High property taxes are good

#519

Post by arrosenberg »

Supermancho wrote: post #423
arrosenberg wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't mean they should be excused from paying their fair share, especially since the elderly make greater use of public services. Float the tax rates to the market level and allow fixed income elderly to accrue a lien against the property that can be paid out of the estate when they die.

The question was why, and fixed income is the rationale. How effective it is or what you or I or the voters think is fair, is incidental.

How is it incidental? Its a bad answer for why because there is a way to solve the problem you described without letting the elderly freeload off the backs of the young.

Re: High property taxes are good

#520

Post by [deleted] »

frosted-flakes wrote: post #478
giaour wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sort of, but that would give you the "social value" of the land, which it only has because of its present use and its proximity to other land used for specific purposes. E.g., the land under my house is worth $X because it's in a residential area in a major metropolitan area. If I were to build a dense mixed use complex on a large plot of land, I would probably increase the land value (since density would make it a d…

LVT is based on location, not farming potential.

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