EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms • Hacker News Board

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#511

Post by threeseed » Tue, Jul 05, 2022, 8:31 PM UTC

kmeisthax wrote: post #457

idle_zealot wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some might try this move, but my guess is that sideloading will involve enough friction that user retention will drop and developers will be heavily disincentivized from relying on it for distribution. In particular I expect that every update will require user action to re-install the new version of every sideloaded app, which is the reason most developers don't go that route on Android today.

Funnily enough that's exactly the reason why Epic sued Google - having to confirm every update and install through a scary dialog box was too anti-competitive for them. Google responded by... actually, adding entirely new APIs in Android for sideloaded app stores to be able to update already-approved applications without extra permissions or approval. In fact, they even distinguish between "sideloaded app" and "insta…

Epic is such a slimy company. They have no interest in users or making the ecosystem better.

They just want to be the gatekeeper so they can endlessly profit from their ridiculous Fornite metaverse concept.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#512

Post by Bud » Tue, Jul 05, 2022, 8:32 PM UTC

vorpalhex wrote: post #260

chris_st wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this, and it just makes me think that if they had, we'd be seeing posts that say, "Apple's greed (in maintaining the egregious 10% commission for so long) is going to undermine their entire ecosystem. If Apple moved voluntarily to 5% or 3% for all, ...".

30% is an insane amount.

Did you research Apple's costs for running the App Store, screening apps for security, etc., before making this blanket statement? I'd wager not.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#513

Post by stevenalowe » Tue, Jul 05, 2022, 8:33 PM UTC

"Allow users to install apps from third-party app stores and sideload directly from the internet"

Because security is an illusion anyway?

I don't understand the hubris behind politicians dictating technical and/or business decisions. If you want interop so badly, start your own platform. You'll find maintaining its integrity/security an absolute unwinnable nightmare.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#514

Post by int_19h » Tue, Jul 05, 2022, 8:33 PM UTC

coldcode wrote: post #462

pchristensen wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For many (most?) users, Apple's restrictions, especially sideloading, protect users from bad actor app owners (looking at you, Facebook). To me, allowing sideloading is like allowing chemical weapons to be used in war. Yes, it's a new tool and capability at your disposal, but it's also available to every powerful and unscrupulous participant.

As soon as side loading or their own app stores are allowed, all sorts of companies may require that. Maybe most big companies will stick with Apple's. As an iOS developer, hardening the 10k-ish apis that exist in iOS will be mostly impossible to do in a short term given the attack vectors would now be outside of Apple's control, probably resulting in incompatibilities and bugs. Android is a horrible platform already…

Android allowed sideloading for many years. How many companies require their apps to be sideloaded?

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#515

Post by Bud » Tue, Jul 05, 2022, 8:34 PM UTC

vorpalhex wrote: post #431

laserlight wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much is a fair amount? Who decides that and how?

The market, through competition.

Is "the market" going to magically provide all the substantial benefits of an Apple-run store for apps, too?

No. It's not. "The market" is going to say: sorry users, fuck that, y'all can just magically research all this and provide your own security and privacy from here on out.

Which is impossible, of course.

Result: much poorer user experience for the vast majority of users. Which is why Apple did it their way in the first place. No, it was not because of revenue. Anyone who says that is either lying or is incredibly lazy and hasn't looked up where Apple actually makes its money.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#516

Post by ThatPlayer » Tue, Jul 05, 2022, 8:34 PM UTC

s1k3s wrote: post #89

I can't make up my mind if this is good or bad. On one hand, FAANG has a huge advantage over anyone else on the market, but they did build that product and they did spend their own money to do it. I'd be curious if there are any other occurrences in history of something so big ending up regulated by the government?

I think it is most similar to the Hollywood anti-trust case of 1948[0]. Back then movie theaters were owned by studios, and therefore they would only book movies to their own theaters.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_Anti-trust_Case_of_1...

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#517

Post by dado3212 » Tue, Jul 05, 2022, 8:35 PM UTC

hackerlight wrote: post #2

> Make messaging, voice-calling, and video-calling services interoperable with third-party services upon request. I hope this means WhatsApp will be somewhat interoperable with equivalent messaging platforms. But I suppose this is just designed to target iMessage. Or have I misunderstood? > Ensure that all apps are uninstallable. Finally I will be able to uninstall Microsoft Edge.

This isn't "I can integrate WhatsApp with Slack" this is "I can set my default text app/call app/video app from iMessage/Phone/FaceTime to a third-party app". Same with setting default browser.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#518

Post by Bud » Tue, Jul 05, 2022, 8:36 PM UTC

Karunamon wrote: post #166

warning26 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every single app creator out there will now want their own "app store" and it's going to be a mess. This is such an oft-repeated argument, yet overlooks that Android already allows sideloading and alternative app stores. If everyone-creating-their-own-app-store hasn't happened on Android, why would iOS be different?

Full devils advocate here, but the argument I've always heard is that the play store is a lot less arbitrary and restrictive than the App Store, so there's less reason to want to go outside of it. Apple locks out so many useful kinds of software that there actually may be enough momentum for real alternate app stores to proliferate.

I have never, in 15 years on iOS, run into a single "kind of software" that Apple has supposedly "locked out" that I actually wanted or needed.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#519

Post by ksec » Tue, Jul 05, 2022, 8:39 PM UTC

kmeisthax wrote: post #445

ksec wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Can we stop pretending that Apple has the users best interest in mind? Well they did , at least during Steve Jobs's era.

Jobs didn't want apps on the iPhone at all and later insisted on having the App Store being the only way to distribute apps. The only reason why we attribute today's Apple as "greedy" and not Jobs-era Apple as such is because you have fonder memories of him. Also, Jobs was a master of the reality distortion field and could explain things easier than today's Apple could. But none of that changes whether or not locked…

People seems to equate everything that Apple are doing today originate from Jobs. And therefore every single sin ( if you call it so ) means it was also Jobs idea.

What people dont realise it was the best model at the time. While Jobs approved the iPhone 6 design ( or a "bigger screen" iPhone ), he died during the iPhone 4 era. When Apple was about to repeat the same mistakes as it did in the 80s /90s.

As if Steve made iPod to only buy or listen music on iTunes. He got rid of Music DRM, single handedly.

Re: EU approves legislation to regulate Apple, Google, Meta, and other tech firms

#520

Post by Bud » Tue, Jul 05, 2022, 8:39 PM UTC

smoldesu wrote: post #344

caramelcustard wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And AFAIK Apple charges 15% if you earn less than a million in your net revenue, yet noone mentions that. Which, by the way, could be considered a sweetheart deal of its own, just like Steams tiered system. As for the Switch it's still 30% and to the developer it doesn't matter whether there's 5 percent going to the customer or not.

Apple only made that change after incredible pushback from their community, and it still doesn't address the real problem: Apple could be charging 2% and they would still have a monopoly on app distribution that deserves to be broken up. Steam isn't comparable, since it charges that 30% fee and competes against other distributors. Despite that, developers continue to choose Steam over alternative platforms like Itch.…

Someone needs a tutorial on what "monopoly" means.

Controlling app distribution solely within your own platform is not a monopoly. You might wish it were. You might not like it; you might want it changed. But that doesn't magically mean you can call it a monopoly. It's not a monopoly.