It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal • Hacker News Board

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#511

Post by seattle_spring » Sun, Jun 05, 2022, 4:37 PM UTC

INGELRII wrote: post #195

Regulation proposal: Set maximum spending limit/time tied to the purchase price. The limit is tied to account and player character. example: 1. free-to-play: $100/year. 2. other: 10×purchase price/year. For a $50 game the maximum spending is $500 per year. This would not set hard limit. It would only mandate up-front investment related to the amount of in-game spending. A Whale who spends $10k a year would have to pa…

What you’re not understanding is that this game violates the players constitutional right to have legendary gems that are as good as their favorite YouTuber.

What are they supposed to do? Just pick away at rifts for free to build up their legendary gem count like secondary citizens? Are they supposed to ONLY use the crests from the battlepass as if this is some kind of subscription based game? What if they want to work tirelessly day and night to grind legendaries to make their character more powerful but don’t have as much money as the next guy? Shouldn’t the government step in?

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#512

Post by Ruthalas » Sun, Jun 05, 2022, 4:38 PM UTC

pfdietz wrote: post #384

P2W is getting a lot of flak, but any game where you have to do not-fun grinding to get to the "good part" is effectively P2W. You are trading something of value, your time, not because the activity is fun, but because it gives you power to then enjoy the game. It's P2W, just not using currency. And this trade is arguably worse overall for society than P2W using money. In that, you are producing something of value fo…

I think a big part the problem is that of you include a cash shop of some sort in your game, the incentive immediately shifts to maximize the grind as much as your players are likely to tolerate. The more you can successfully push this, the more money the time-saving items you sell will turn a profit.

So any game that includes this sort of transactional mechanic has a strong perverse incentive to waste your time.

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#513

Post by Al-Khwarizmi » Sun, Jun 05, 2022, 4:38 PM UTC

lekevicius wrote: post #199

It's even more frustrating, because the game is good . I really enjoyed playing the first 30 levels or so. Good story, good controls, very satisfying gameplay. If I could pay $60 and just have a "classic" Diablo on my phone, I might. But I won't spend a cent on consumable in-app purchases. It is so sad that "make good game, sell it" model no longer works. It's all a wonky curve of "free - couple of dollars - hundreds…

Indeed. I'm personally not a victim of loot boxes and exploitative P2W tactics because I just don't buy them. But I just want to pay some amount once and have a good game in my Android phone, without ads and without constantly nagging me to spend more! I'll pay $60 also if the game is good, I just don't want to be put into a Skinner box constantly trying to milk my "engagement" and my pockets. Is that so much to ask?

Mind you, there are some games like that (my usual routine is to go to Google Play Games, navigate to the bottom, choose "no ads" and "no in-app purchases"), but it seems that they are like 1% of the total.

If you like a specific niche subgenre, a franchise, etc. it's very likely that all games you find will be of the exploitative variety.

It's sad that I have a pocket computer with an awesome screen in my hand the whole day, and other cool features like gyroscope, GPS, etc. that can be used for gaming; and I find myself going back to my good old PC (or lately, the Steam Deck) when I want to play.

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#514

Post by BlueTemplar » Sun, Jun 05, 2022, 4:38 PM UTC

kybernetyk wrote: post #126

gambiting wrote: post #54

The thing is - is it necessary to have the best gear to enjoy the game? As a different example - I'm sure it would cost tens of thousands of dollars to max out your characters and gear in Genshin Impact, but I've played very enjoyable 100h+ and it's perfectly fine even if you don't have the max ascended characters and gear, I have a feeling those are there basically for the wales to spend money on but aren't necessar…

> The thing is - is it necessary to have the best gear to enjoy the game? Yes, at least in those types of games. Gear improvement is a big part of the game progression. Before microtransactions that just meant spending ungodly amounts of time in those games. Nowadays it means bankrupting yourself.

I disagree, the most enjoyable experience in Diablo 2 is probably during lvl 25-40 (/99), roughly corresponding to the acts 4 and 5 of the story of the first difficulty level and the 2nd difficulty level (out of 3).

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#515

Post by Haegin » Sun, Jun 05, 2022, 4:39 PM UTC

lekevicius wrote: post #299

Beltalowda wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is so sad that "make good game, sell it" model no longer works. It's all a wonky curve of "free - couple of dollars - hundreds and thousands of dollars". What makes you say that? I mostly play single-player games where I just buy a game and then play it. There are loads of those out there, with more released every week. Even with my underpowered Linux laptop I have plenty to choose from.

I guess I should have added "no longer works on mobile". PCs/Consoles have plenty of good, paid-upfront games.

I never got much into mobile gaming, but have recently been having a lot of fun playing PC or console games on my phone (using a controller) with streaming services. I've played with both Geforce Now and Xbox Game Pass and (at home on my decent cable internet connection) it's working really nicely. I also have the Nvidia shield, so when I do want to game on the TV I can pick up where I left off very easily.

If you're looking for a game to play on your commute it's probably not going to work, but for at home on the couch it's great.

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#516

Post by calibas » Sun, Jun 05, 2022, 4:41 PM UTC

friendlypeg wrote: post #367

I have been playing and enjoying the game for the past few days. The P2W gem system can be ignore entirely by most players unless you want to become the best in leaderboard. Overall the monetization is on par with other mobile games. The only reason this gets so much attention is because Blizzard is a easy target to generate outrages and clicks these days.

> on par with other mobile games

That bad, eh?

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#517

Post by BlueTemplar » Sun, Jun 05, 2022, 4:41 PM UTC

JonathanFly wrote: post #403

havblue wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I gave up on plants versus zombies 2 quickly when it became obvious the game was just prompting me to spend money at every turn. Granted, some people say this was mitigated eventually. I think games where you have an option to pay for dlc at the start screen are fine. It's being constantly pressured that I consider to be a breach of trust.

>I gave up on plants versus zombies 2 quickly when it became obvious the game was just prompting me to spend money at every turn. Granted, some people say this was mitigated eventually. The funny thing is the unmitigated , most pay2win version of Plants Versus Zombies 2 - the game at launch - was accidentally one of the most amazing and intense gaming experiences for people who never spent anything. For people who ju…

Except they later screwed it up by adding plant and zombie level ups. And you can't even play the old version any more ! That's another issue with those "pay not to grind" games...

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#518

Post by Ruthalas » Sun, Jun 05, 2022, 4:41 PM UTC

somehnacct3757 wrote: post #369

Honestly that's pretty cheap for a F2P game. The most financially successful F2P games will have planned for spend to 'go infinite'. This may be by setting up money fights on a ranked ladder, or constantly rotating out characters so that spenders have to reset progress. The fact that you can max out in Diablo Immortal, and so cheaply, shows Blizzard still hasn't learned what F2P is all about. They are listening too m…

This comment makes me sad.

Primarily because you are correct.

I think a nice addition at the bottom would be the addendum, "if the goal is maximise profit at all costs and there is no regard for their customer-base beyond how effectively they can be exploited."

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#519

Post by stevenjgarner » Sun, Jun 05, 2022, 4:43 PM UTC

mattnewton wrote: post #496

stevenjgarner wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a programmer, are those gacha "vending machines" available in code libraries? I would love to experiment with implementing one in a productivity web application.

I am not sure I understand what you mean. The core mechanic is that rewards are randomly distributed - the namesake “gacha” machines dispense a capsule with a random toy. Think of it as a slot machine where if it hits you get an item you wanted / needed for gameplay and if it doesn’t it just took your money and gave you something useless.

Perhaps I need to play to understand, but it sounds like “gacha” machines behave like in-game vending machines where the player can purchase "features" to enhance their avatar etc.? Or do I have that wrong? I just assumed that those “gacha” machines are code libraries in gaming engines (Unity, Godot, GameMaker: Studio, etc), and that maybe a “gacha” machine code library is available open source or in some other fashion.

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#520

Post by foobarian » Sun, Jun 05, 2022, 4:45 PM UTC

Ralfp wrote: post #484

matwood wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article is really quite confusing. Early on it says F2P can't get the best gear, then later says they can. Then they say even for paid players it's random so I'm not even sure how they come up with 100k figure. It's just hard for me to get upset about a game that's always been a pretty skin over a blatant Skinner box.

The way those games are designed most of time there is a way to get good gear for free, but its usually behind hundreds of hours of same monotous gameplay. I’ve played Homeworld mobile recently. The progress is great for first 15 hours but then game drops at you timegates. Wanna spaceship strong enough for later content? You can do god know how many missions hoping you get ship design, or you can do god knows how man…

I mean, it's been like this since the first Diablo. Even the sounds and animations when killing major bosses sounded and looked like a slot machine. It's nice that people are upset about it as they should, but this is not a new phenomenon and I'm puzzled why the hate is directed at DI specifically. At the end of the day a grizzled old-school gamer could not play multiplayer, ignore all paid options, and end up with the exact same experience as Diablo 2.