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Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

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Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#511

Post by tomrod »

Aurelius3 wrote: post #444
tomrod wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Misnomer. "White" isn't a culture. https://www.tiktok.com/@tizzyent/video/6881703506558848262?l...

I don't understand this perspective. Aren't European Americans similarly stripped of there European heritage as time goes on in the new world? Thus the word white in america means "of european origin living in america" the same way black means "of african origin living in america". I think it is really schizophrenic to say that black culture exists but white culture does not seeing as both terms represent a new world…

> I don't understand this perspective.

The first few seconds of the linked video cover this. I encourage you to watch it.

Effectively, there is not a strong equivalence between the categorization of white vs. black in terms of origin. Whites typically weren't forced to move to North America and have their home cultures stripped from them through generations of slavery. This is why you find things like German Heritage celebrations or St. Patrick's Day, etc. You don't see Yoruba Heritage celebrations, etc. Further, the definition of "white" has grown over time to incorporate Irish, Italian, Slavic, etc. African heritage has persisted as a secondary class of citizens or worse in US history.

That is what is meant by stripped heritage. It really isn't schizophrenic. A white person could use the census and other tools to trace their roots successfully, further. A black person can and often does hit a dead end much quicker. We all come from somewhere -- knowing one's history can be helpful medically and for personal worldview.

Should a person be solely where their ancestors originated? I don't think so. But it does matter, in the same way the OP article on caste matters, in hundreds to thousands of small interactions over the course of every day life. I highly recommend Dr. Painter's The History of White People. [0]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_History_of_White_People

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#512

Post by unmole »

vmception wrote: post #509
unmole wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One day it occurred to me that I can tell if someone is from India Can you really tell if someone is from India and not from Afghanistan, Pakistan, Nepal, Sri Lanka or Bangladesh? Because I can't and I am from India.

After hearing their name, dialect and seeing their mannerisms, yes, I can tell. Several other comments mentioned there is an overrepresentation of specific groups from India, within the US, so I am attuned to recognize that group as "Indian heritage". These things are rarely as simple as looking at someone visually from afar or in a lineup and making a complete decision.

> After hearing their name, dialect and seeing their mannerisms

So, you can confidently tell a Bengali Indian from a Bangladeshi? Or a Madhesi from a Bihari? An Indian Gurkha from a Nepali?

I respectfully call BS.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#513

Post by giantg2 »

bin_bash wrote: post #311
giantg2 wrote: post #211

"with an offer package that totaled almost $450,000." Sounds like he went from the bottom 1% to the top 1%. That's impressive.

It’s unclear if that’s annual compensation or how much of it vests over 4 years.

True. Either way, that's still a huge change, and more than most people earn over 8 years.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#514

Post by mise_en_place »

novok wrote: post #414
sanmon3186 wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time such articles pop-up, I wonder what rock am I living under. In 22 years of experience (Half in US/UK and rest in India) in eight global organizations, not even a single time I heard or witnessed any cast based biases. What we regularly see is region/lingustic biases. Cast based discrimination exist in India, but in my experience the issue is overblown in the knowledge industry.

I was in a rating sync once and noticed some very strange crab bucket behavior that only came from more sr Indian managers and engineers with regards to another jr Indian-origin teammate who never even lived in India AFAIK. The fact that the negative detractors were only Indian, and everyone else was positive about the person made me connect the possibility that maybe there was something going on that I couldn't tell…

Yeah, that’s why I make it a point not to join a company with any Indians in it. I was born in America, but they insist on playing their weird Hindu mind games and politics with me. If there’s an Indian on the prospective team or on the interview panel, I end the interview right there. The risk is just too much that it will be an unfun place to work at.

It’s also why I’ve had to cut off contact with most if not all of my family who are of Indian origin. They play strange political games that I have no interest in participating. At the end of the day humans are tribal and it is this aspect which makes me hate a lot of people.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#516

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

Lascaille wrote: post #426
TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not Indian. Hope that helps explain.

It doesn't. His answer could mean two things, and which one it is depends more on his race than yours.

He was also not Indian but many of the senior managers were.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#517

Post by random314 »

diebeforei485 wrote: post #497
random314 wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am calling you out for your fake story of Christians trying to figure out who is a brahmin by patting their backs. It is completely unnecessary as you can tell who is a brahmin from the last name. You just made up a fake story to play victim and transfer blame to Christians here and in several other comments. It is a well known fact that the primary form of caste discrimination occurs against lower castes by upper…

I think you are directing your moral outrage at the wrong person.

I confused you with the OP. Unfortunately, I cannot edit my comment. Apologies for that.

Going back to the original comment- I was making it clear that nobody needs to pat someone on the back to figure out if they are brahmins - you can tell from the last names.

I dont really know the castes of my friends except Brahmins, because they keep informing me.

1. Tamil brahmins - any domestic post on Facebook has a reference to the "TamBram" community.

2. My manager informed me once that the reason he was light skinned while south Indian was because his ancestors were north Indian brahmins who moved to the south to work as priests. I never asked him about his skin color. He brought it up himself.

3. One of my peers - a maharashtrian brahmin explained to me how his particular brahmin subcaste was even superior to other brahmins because of some XYZ reason. I didn't know he was a Brahmin before this.

There are several more instances. Of course, there must be brahmins amongst my friends where I don't know about their caste. But the only friends who have brought up their caste voluntarily were brahmins.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#518

Post by random314 »

saagarjha wrote: post #446
random314 wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am calling you out for your fake story of Christians trying to figure out who is a brahmin by patting their backs. It is completely unnecessary as you can tell who is a brahmin from the last name. You just made up a fake story to play victim and transfer blame to Christians here and in several other comments. It is a well known fact that the primary form of caste discrimination occurs against lower castes by upper…

Hacker News is not a place for you to call people out for their "fake" stories, it's a place where you do your best to take comments in good faith. People have different experiences than you do, and yes, sometimes people will lie online. But that's no reason to immediately jump to accusations, and especially not here.

The fact that you responded to me and not to any of mama123 comments - a textbook case of what urban casteism looks like - tells me a lot about what an upper caste person's definition of good faith and bad faith is.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#519

Post by random314 »

mama123 wrote: post #205
yrgulation wrote: post #26

The caste system is so deeply entrenched in the culture of those abused by it that even centuries after leaving india they cant leave it behind. Romania has a considerable group of such people. The Gipsy (also know as Romani) are an Indian people that are thought to have been part of a caste and fled India hundreds of years ago. To this day they cant lift themselves up, and frankly the government of Romania is not do…

There isn't any proof that the Romani left because of their caste. There is a strong evidence that they might have been driven away by the Islamic invasions, because their timelines coincide.

This is another instance of right wing upper caste hindu nationalists making up pseudo history on the fly.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#520

Post by Spooky23 »

icelancer wrote: post #440
Spooky23 wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You needn’t be ham handed and stupid about it, just use meaningful internal controls. Not just for this issue. If everyone hires friends and family, people from the hometown, place of worship, etc you run into other conflicts of interest. It’s always good to have disinterested parties involved in the hiring process.

On the basis of race, either documented or not, is asking to eat a massive civil lawsuit and get canceled in the media for doing so.

That’s why I said to not be ham handed about it.

Make a policy with respect to nepotism and discrimination, include a representative from other organizational groups in the interview process and be attentive to following policy.

You also have to be aware of culture issues and manage them without being a jerk. If you hire managers with background/experience whose norms are not inline with your culture you need to manage that. A McKinsey alum, a former outsourcing manager, and a web agency manager are going to have different positive and negative biases.

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