Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How bad is my gas stove?

carbonswitch.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

511–520 of 541 posts

Re: How bad is my gas stove?

#511

Post by avianlyric »

thfuran wrote: post #489
avianlyric wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure all inductions jobs will use duty cycling (pulse width modulation if we’re getting technical). But that doesn’t determine responsiveness. With a resistive hob (ceramic hob is the industry name) you’re relying on a large lump of stone (hence the name ceramic hob) to be a heat store and even out the elements lumpy power output. Problem with this approach is that it takes forever for the stone to heat up and cool d…

>inductions jobs will use duty cycling (pulse width modulation if we’re getting technical). But that doesn’t determine responsiveness. It absolutely does when the pulses are on the order of ten seconds long, as in many electric ranges. But yes, the thermal mass of the heated coil/cooktop are also a major factor.

No it doesn’t, because change the ring setting will interrupt the current duty cycle, and terminates it early if it needed. A control system that didn’t do that would be more complicated than one that did, because it would require the control system to persist internal state across duty cycles.

Re: How bad is my gas stove?

#512

Post by b112 »

b112 wrote: post #502
rohitb91 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow that would be exceptionally expensive. In cold areas I've seen people with moderately sized homes have $1000 bills in the cold months in ontario.

Quebec. Power is much, much cheaper there.

Some clarity. Power is cheaper than natural gas, or oil for heating typically in Quebec.

Re: How bad is my gas stove?

#513

Post by rsfern »

hexane360 wrote: post #491
rsfern wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re not quite the same, cast iron generally has a higher carbon composition range and a different phase distribution. Cast iron has a much lower thermal conductivity

>Cast iron has a much lower thermal conductivity I thought this was true (it makes some sense), but the data seems to show the opposite. This source has cast iron at 52 W/m-K, and 1% carbon steel at 43 W/m-K (0.5% carbon steel is at 54 W/m-K). Now, this obviously depends a lot on the processing and heat treatment of each material. But at the very least, the difference is not massive. https://www.engineeringtoolbox.co…

Interesting, thanks!

I guess most of the reputation of cast iron comes from the chunky shapes of the pans, and that the higher end stainless cookware is often cladding around copper core

Re: How bad is my gas stove?

#514

Post by ajmurmann »

tssva wrote: post #476
ajmurmann wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is really interesting. I was reading the thread waiting to find a hard, technical reason for the cost difference. Instead, this really seems to be an opportunity for disrupting the US market. I wonder if someone could make some good money for a while importing Bosch stove tops. Your margin blah blah blah..

Until Bosch and their authorized US resellers discover you exist, yes.

If they don't want the free market to do its thing, I'm sure someone more dedicated could instead get something comparable made in China.

Re: How bad is my gas stove?

#515

Post by thfuran »

avianlyric wrote: post #511
thfuran wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>inductions jobs will use duty cycling (pulse width modulation if we’re getting technical). But that doesn’t determine responsiveness. It absolutely does when the pulses are on the order of ten seconds long, as in many electric ranges. But yes, the thermal mass of the heated coil/cooktop are also a major factor.

No it doesn’t, because change the ring setting will interrupt the current duty cycle, and terminates it early if it needed. A control system that didn’t do that would be more complicated than one that did, because it would require the control system to persist internal state across duty cycles.

Sure, in the limited sense of immediacy of response to change in control input. But in the more general sense of also considering accuracy/consistency of response to a control input, not so much. If you have a low thermal mass pan on a middling heat setting on a hob with excessively wide pwm like that, you can tell when the hob is on and when it's off just by how much the contents are sizzling any given second. The pan temperature is not stable because the pulses are too wide.

Re: How bad is my gas stove?

#516

Post by topaz0 »

gibbonsrcool wrote: post #484
topaz0 wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might want to take a minute to read the article itself. The author measures NO2 levels in their house with the equipment (stove, furnace, etc) that they have and the meals that they cook (or don't, e.g. when getting takeout). They make no comparison to other stoves.

There is an implicit comparison through the research he cites. It’s also almost certain the reader would be using this information to decide on moving away from gas. No one is trying to use this information to make a decision on whether to abandon cooking. They want to know how bad gas stoves pollute indoor air so they can weigh their decision to go electric.

Sure. But the comment you responded to was about the observational study that the author did, not about the research. The question is about what portion of the observed emissions come from cooking per se, as opposed to the gas that is used to do the cooking. I suspect it is a small portion, but it is still an interesting one, and not addressed by the article.

Re: How bad is my gas stove?

#517

Post by avianlyric »

thfuran wrote: post #515
avianlyric wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it doesn’t, because change the ring setting will interrupt the current duty cycle, and terminates it early if it needed. A control system that didn’t do that would be more complicated than one that did, because it would require the control system to persist internal state across duty cycles.

Sure, in the limited sense of immediacy of response to change in control input. But in the more general sense of also considering accuracy/consistency of response to a control input, not so much. If you have a low thermal mass pan on a middling heat setting on a hob with excessively wide pwm like that, you can tell when the hob is on and when it's off just by how much the contents are sizzling any given second. The p…

I’ve personally never encountered such a poorly designed induction hob. Induction hob require proper electronic control systems to operate, it would be weird to design such a system to operate with a wide PWM, it’s costs nothing for the system to operate at 1Hz or higher.

In ceramic hobs, they usually don’t have proper power control systems. They normally rely on a set of thermal switches to disconnect the main heating element when the ceramic element gets hot enough. The entire control system is analog and relies physical phenomena like wax expansion etc. Phenomena that is well know to be unresponsive, but very cheap.

Re: How bad is my gas stove?

#518

Post by IdoRA »

poulsbohemian wrote: post #494

For the induction fans here: How do you use things like woks or tagines? Feels like there are types of cooking that become difficult or not possible, or am I really missing something.

In addition to those, I also like to cook in donabes: I use a portable butane stove. I don’t think you’re missing anything, even if you could get an induction setup to work you have to make too many compromises to make it worthwhile.

Re: How bad is my gas stove?

#519

Post by CryptoBanker »

dionidium wrote: post #402
JasonFruit wrote: post #386

Well, that was a nice read. Now I'm going to go cook lunch on the woodstove. To me, not everything is about safety and health; some things are about what my family likes . We like to work together cutting wood and stacking it for the winter. We like the feel of wood heat. My kids are proud that they can cook on an appliance most people never even attempt. We like the feeling of a tie to the past, that we're doing tas…

> I'd rather live the way I want to live, and I'm not really bothered if my happiness cuts ten years off my life; I'd prefer seventy years of living to eighty years of not dying. This is a mis-framing of the relevant tradeoffs. Your options aren't a truncated life of joy vs. a longer life of asceticism. The tradeoff might instead be that one of your kids gets asthma and suffers with the condition for their entire lif…

All this says to me is that your value of joy is zero
Post reply on HN