President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment • Hacker News Board

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#511

Post by tgb » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 4:10 PM UTC

satronaut wrote: post #225

jahnu wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the best ways for those of us in the democratic West to combat this is to not tolerate when our own governments promote false narratives. This displays the virtues of our imperfect system better than anything else, imo. Don't tolerate lies, hypocrisy, or sophistry from our leaders even if they are nominally on 'our side'.

"Don't tolerate lies, hypocrisy, or sophistry from our leaders even if they are nominally on 'our side'. ", This bugs me so much. The biden administration literally complained to MSM about the bad news they were getting. In a few days CNN came out with "Gas prices are coming down ", being still not as low as the Trump era. Reminds me of 1984 when Winston makes up an article about chocolate rations

I'm confused by your complaint. Gas prices heave generally been heading down recently as best as I can tell. Gasbuddy.com/charts

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#512

Post by throwaway5752 » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 4:11 PM UTC

This is a great statement, I disagree with people saying it's not strong enough. The school administration can't identify people without evidence. But he made a strong, definitive statement of support of harasee, called the Tianamen Square protesters martyrs, and said both people that directly harassed the student as well as those that reported it to authorities in China would be subject to discipline. The question is follow-through, but we will have to wait to see how that bears out.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#513

Post by aledalgrande » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 4:11 PM UTC

> 451: Unavailable due to legal reasons > > We recognize you are attempting to access this website from a country belonging to the European Economic Area (EEA) including the EU which enforces the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) and therefore access cannot be granted at this time.

1. I didn't know about 451. 2. What is so important that they cannot allow to read behind a GDPR?

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#514

Post by simonh » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 4:11 PM UTC

lazide wrote: post #478

colinmhayes wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those seeking to deny those rights to others I'd say harassment falls into this category, so no proof of collusion with the CCP is needed.

If something is harassment or merely exercising their right to express their opinion is also a matter for subjective judgement and he said/she said type finger pointing, and highly dependent on context and frequency (which can be hard to find solid concrete evidence for without a lot of work).

It sounds like some of the students not only threatened to report him to the Chinese authorities, but told him that they had done so, and he has proof who made these threats and claims. They didn’t try to hide it.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#515

Post by ysavir » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 4:12 PM UTC

Semaphor wrote: post #439

Sharlin wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Public space alcohol consumption is one of the weirdest metrics I’ve seen to gauge freedom. I would say it's a much more relevant metric than the ability to own a shitload of guns, or to drive a black smoke diesel truck, the latter of which is honestly bafflingly antisocial behavior. The definition of "freedom" should begin with the freedom from others pushing their negative externalities onto you.

> The definition of "freedom" should begin with the freedom from others pushing their negative externalities onto you. While I (European) generally agree with you, this could also be a point against public consumption of alcohol ;)

I think the attitude might be that we should prohibit and punish the behaviors, not the source. If someone is being belligerent or otherwise disruptive in a public space, whether or not they're drinking alcohol should not be a factor. And if someone is drinking alcohol without being disruptive, is there cause to punish or prohibit their behavior?

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#516

Post by Aunche » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 4:12 PM UTC

jahnu wrote: post #101

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #63

The scale of some Chinese people's commitment to support of their government's chosen narrative against facts is quite impressive / scary. Zealots make great cannon fodder, and the more cannon fodder the higher the chance of winning. It bodes poorly for Hong Kong, Taiwan, and any other country with a coastline along the South China Sea.

One of the best ways for those of us in the democratic West to combat this is to not tolerate when our own governments promote false narratives. This displays the virtues of our imperfect system better than anything else, imo. Don't tolerate lies, hypocrisy, or sophistry from our leaders even if they are nominally on 'our side'.

The best way for us to combat this is to strengthen our diplomatic relations and develop our economy, which is exactly want China is doing itself.

I think that people in the West really overestimate the importance of combating narratives to the point where China is taking advantage of it. China doesn't actually give a damn about narratives outside of China, except when they want to virtue signal or when it's convenient. For example, look at China's reaction towards Nike and H&M after they spoke out about Xinjiang. They've encouraged their citizens to boycott these companies, which helps their Chinese-owned competitors. Meanwhile, they'll happily continue to supply H&M and Nike because they would otherwise harm their economy. The result is that we have a larger trade deficit.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#517

Post by vhgyu75e6u » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 4:12 PM UTC

Zenbit_UX wrote: post #442

ch4s3 wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were run over by tanks, and the PRC has made it illegal to even mention the event. Most nation states allow citizens to talk about their own history good and bad.

Run over by tanks doesn't quite cover the brutality of that night. The tanks repeatedly drove over and then reversed over the same bodies until they were pulp on the streets. What happened that night was ni unspeakable, yet we must speak of it or we risk it being forgotten in history.

Turned into a pulp and washed away with hoes down the sewers

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#518

Post by lazide » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 4:13 PM UTC

zepto wrote: post #409

jeffh wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the 50s there was US agent repression and intimidation of beliefs around communism (see McCarthyism). The KKK was also still rampant and had members that were police or other "state officials". So ... maybe US isn't so different after all?

The KKK wasn’t a part of the state. And yes, there was state sponsored anti-communism in the 50s, but it is not even close to comparable. Nobody was being intimidated for mentioning communism, or even advocating for it. People were targeted for group membership. This is still wrong, but please stop trying to make it seem equivalent to what is happening today in China. The fact that you have to go back 50 years to fin…

[flagged]

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#519

Post by djrogers » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 4:13 PM UTC

sschueller wrote: post #248

Bayesian_bro wrote: post #215

This is just an example of the different ethics between China and America. America is very deontological in terms of FREEDOM. We love freedom above everything else. China is very consequentialist, they care about prosperity and success over everything else. I'm a pretty red blooded American (I drive a black smoke diesel truck and have enough firearms and ammo to make it pretty far in the apocalypse). I wonder what et…

I would compare Tiananmen Square with the Tulsa race massacre. How many Americans don't know about it? The time I spend in the US I had the feeling that you have more of a pseudo freedom than actual freedom. Everyone keeps saying how free they are and how great their country is yet you can't even drink an alcoholic beverage on the street without getting arrested. You go to a town festival and the people who want to d…

> Everyone keeps saying how free they are and how great their country is yet you can't even drink an alcoholic beverage on the street without getting arrested.

This shows a common misunderstanding of the US legal system - the federal gov't couldn't make public consumption legal or illegal even if it wanted to. I go to local festivals in my town multiple time s a year with thousands of people milling about drinking freely - because my city and county don't prohibit it.

You come to the US with the assumption that the federal government has authority over these things, but they don't - constitutionally they are largely forbidden from creating laws like that - it's up to the state, county, and city to do so.

Re: President Daniels responds to Chinese student's harassment

#520

Post by eli_gottlieb » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 4:13 PM UTC

dirtyid wrote: post #502

oxfeed65261 wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perdue President Mitch Daniels said “Those seeking to deny those rights to others, let alone to collude with foreign governments in repressing them, will need to pursue their education elsewhere,” but there is no indication that the students have been expelled. The statement is bizarre and nonsensical if the students are not expelled.

At the end of the day, it's a stretch to assume the students did anything other than wield their rights to free speech on an American (or other western) campus. Anti CCP activities, on campus or elsewhere in west makes it way through PRC media bubbles with of millions of eyeballs willing to do the dirty work, frequently within PRC soil. All it takes is for a post to trend. Freedom of speech in west =/= freedom from c…

>Rich Chinese kids with social media are playing the same cancel culture game against the out-group and that just happens to be aligned/exploitable for PRC censorship.

So? It's a crappy game and we should stop letting them play it. Making up accusations of being a CIA agent is not better than making up accusations of being a PLA agent.