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Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

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Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#511

Post by pydry »

AlexandrB wrote: post #507
throwawaycities wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glad this was the top comment. Wages have not kept up with cost of living for 50 years in the US. We need to stop pretending flat wages are some modern problem of inflation, and we need to stop pretending inflation is some problem caused by the pandemic.

I don't get why minimum wage isn't tied to the CPI by default. I supposed there's a risk of it creating a positive feedback loop, but only a small portion of the workforce is paid at minimum wage. It seems capricious for minimum wage to only be increased when the legislative branch decides it's popular enough to fight for.

Because both parties are owned by oligarchs who would lose money if that happened.

Minimum wage hikes chew through profits and profits are pretty much the #1 legislative priority because that's the primary concern of those doing the campaign financing.

Same reason gun control wont happen no matter how many people get killed - ultimately its because gun manufacturers would lose money.

American politics is the art of trying to shape public opinion just enough to be compatible with the desires of campaign financers.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#512

Post by mercy_dude »

awhitby wrote: post #473
mercy_dude wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How much did an internet connection cost in the 1970s? What about a computer? What about a smartphone? This is the elitist fallacy that somehow having access cheap smartphones and plastics mostly manufactured in China at the back of our working class jobs make your life better while all else indicates life expectancy and quality of life across the board is declining for majority of Americans. Many Americans includi…

Quality of life is pretty subjective but US life expectancy rose from about 70 to 79 between 1970 and today.

Yeah this is akin to saying our GDP growth is X% or inflation is 2% so everything is fine.

The measures for a quality of life I mentioned are something that every American or anyone in a first world country has to bear no matter what. Housing, healthcare, education. All of them have disproportionately gone up while the wage have stagnated. Average middle class family can’t afford to buy a house in most cities now, same with education without 22yr old kids taking on 150k loans. Or healthcare being the mess it is. But sure, everyone has a cheap smartphone and access to socials where they are busy fighting the culture war so everything is fine and dandy right?

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#513

Post by cheeseomlit »

oblio wrote: post #362
nickpp wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that those regulated domains are generally much more expensive in all those countries, no?

You don't need to believe anything, you can check for yourself. The numbers are easily available online. Healthcare is 2-3-4 times >. Education is generally >. Housing is expensive outside the US, too, a bit less so. I feel the problem is not regulation in the US, it's that you half ass it. Americans are all about "rugged individualism" and "small government" when advanced societies are advanced because large groups…

I do think our regulation is half-assed, but that's mostly due to corruption and regulatory capture. I don't think it has anything to do with our penchant for rugged individualism, and far more to do with price-fixing healthcare cartels, cronyism, a ridiculously broken healthcare insurance system, and lawmakers who have been lobbied hard to not break up these schemes. Regulations have to actually be enforced (not selectively) to do any good, and they have to be created by people without perverse incentives. Small government is not the problem, it's corrupt government

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#514

Post by tootie »

throwawaycities wrote: post #262
Gareth321 wrote: post #250

Real wages have been flat since the 1970s ( https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us... ). "Okay, so people's living standards are about the same since 1970?" Not even close. The problem with inflation is that its calculation is fraught with all kinds of selective weighting, bias, and politics. Take a look at the relative differences between the things which have decreased and increased in cost in…

Glad this was the top comment. Wages have not kept up with cost of living for 50 years in the US. We need to stop pretending flat wages are some modern problem of inflation, and we need to stop pretending inflation is some problem caused by the pandemic.

Is it not a problem? Wages rose substantially in the years between WWII and the 1970s but isn't that the actual aberration?

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#515

Post by anshumankmr »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #487
anshumankmr wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus he is a multi-millionaire.

What does being a multi millionaire allow one to do? An old couple with a few million saved up for the rest of their life is protected against health risks and some inflation, but they are not likely going to be able to spend sufficiently to influence others.

Using this information here [1](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/24/where-bernie-sanders-money-c...) and this calculator here [2](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/07/21/are-you-in-...),

>annual income of 1,100,000 U.S. dollars for a household of 2 is equivalent to $1,309/day per person in 2011 in purchasing power parity dollars, putting you in the high income group worldwide, along with 39.8% of people in advanced economies.

*2 since he has a wife.

And he doesn't have to pay much for insurance as per this [3](https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/25/heres-how-much-members-of-co...)

He is a part of the "elite" class as per his income. And being a senator he does have a lot of influence over policy.

I don't hate Bernie but seeing the discourse regarding him, that often deifies him feels disingenuous to me.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#516

Post by temp8964 »

Gareth321 wrote: post #250

Real wages have been flat since the 1970s ( https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us... ). "Okay, so people's living standards are about the same since 1970?" Not even close. The problem with inflation is that its calculation is fraught with all kinds of selective weighting, bias, and politics. Take a look at the relative differences between the things which have decreased and increased in cost in…

I think the most recent experience on inflation is very clear on this. The government reported number is 6%. But for people who spend most of their money on daily items, like rent and grocery, 6% is like lying to my face telling me red is blue.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#517

Post by jdavis703 »

mercy_dude wrote: post #371
dan-robertson wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most Americans are significantly worse off since the 1970s I think this is obviously false and hurts the credibility of the rest of this comment. There are many pitfalls with measuring long-term inflation. How much did an internet connection cost in the 1970s? What about a computer? What about a smartphone? These modern technologies make peoples lives much better and were somewhere between impossible and impossibly…

> How much did an internet connection cost in the 1970s? What about a computer? What about a smartphone? This is the elitist fallacy that somehow having access cheap smartphones and plastics mostly manufactured in China at the back of our working class jobs make your life better while all else indicates life expectancy and quality of life across the board is declining for majority of Americans. Many Americans includi…

The causes of decreasing life expectancy are fairly well understood and have little to do with the economy.

We know many young people are dying early deaths of despair. We can make mental health easier to access (there’s a lot of unnecessary bureaucracy just to get pills for well understood mental illnesses).

We can help folks avoid drug overdoses. One piece of low hanging fruit is to make opioids over the counter — that ways people aren’t _accidently_ overdosing on mislabeled fentanyl. And when they do OD, we can make sure they have safe consumption sites and narcan available (this is no different than a bar, where sometimes an ambulance has to rush away someone with severe alcohol poisoning).

We can help folks fight obesity — calorie counts should be included on everything and farm subsidies should be reallocated to healthier foods and low-calorie alcohol sugars instead of HFCS.

And lastly, COVDI-19 has been a big contributor to increased mortality. Anytime the US wants to get serious about the virus we can.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#518

Post by DebtDeflation »

throwawaycities wrote: post #309
dan-robertson wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most Americans are significantly worse off since the 1970s I think this is obviously false and hurts the credibility of the rest of this comment. There are many pitfalls with measuring long-term inflation. How much did an internet connection cost in the 1970s? What about a computer? What about a smartphone? These modern technologies make peoples lives much better and were somewhere between impossible and impossibly…

> I think this is obviously false and hurts the credibility of the rest of this comment. The answer to the question of “are we better of than we were in 19xx” is somewhat subjective. Take your points: cars are faster/safer/more comfortable/more fuel efficient and houses are bigger and better. Ok so cars and houses are better today than 1970, but how does that relate to us? 1970 Average salary/median house cost/median…

>there is the elephant in the room of college loans which were essentially non-existent in 1970, but have indebted 10s of millions of kids

Also, health care/insurance costs. Growing up as a kid in the 1970s/1980s in a blue collar household, my father's job provided health insurance at a far lower % of salary than is common today and with minimal out of pocket costs for receiving care. Also, retirement. Back then most companies provided defined benefit (pension) plans rather than defined contribution (401K) plans - you put in your years and then you retired at a decent % of final salary for life.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#519

Post by shakezula »

pydry wrote: post #511
AlexandrB wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get why minimum wage isn't tied to the CPI by default. I supposed there's a risk of it creating a positive feedback loop, but only a small portion of the workforce is paid at minimum wage. It seems capricious for minimum wage to only be increased when the legislative branch decides it's popular enough to fight for.

Because both parties are owned by oligarchs who would lose money if that happened. Minimum wage hikes chew through profits and profits are pretty much the #1 legislative priority because that's the primary concern of those doing the campaign financing. Same reason gun control wont happen no matter how many people get killed - ultimately its because gun manufacturers would lose money. American politics is the art of t…

And the reason countries like NZ seem to be able to quickly and efficiently pass sweeping gun reform laws is because it’s not effecting any major gun producers bottom line. In America that is very much not the situation.

Additionally, even if profits were a moot point, the 2nd amendment is a culture war wedge issue that runs bone-deep for the average American.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#520

Post by fundad »

Gareth321 wrote: post #250

Real wages have been flat since the 1970s ( https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us... ). "Okay, so people's living standards are about the same since 1970?" Not even close. The problem with inflation is that its calculation is fraught with all kinds of selective weighting, bias, and politics. Take a look at the relative differences between the things which have decreased and increased in cost in…

Exactly this. The same people setting wages are setting prices.
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