Web3? I have my DAOts • Hacker News Board

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#511

Post by darkFunction » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 2:35 PM UTC

lottin wrote: post #497

darkFunction wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a strawman. The entire ecosystem does not have to be 100% decentralised. There is massive utility in a trustless, permissionless, censorship-resistant contract layer connecting disparate centralised entities. A centrally managed registry would never be suitable for this task for a multitude of obvious reasons.

> There is massive utility in a trustless, permissionless, censorship-resistant contract layer connecting disparate centralised entities. No, there's no utility in that, if ultimately enforcement relies on an entity that needs to be trusted and can override the blockchain. > A centrally managed registry would never be suitable for this task for a multitude of obvious reasons. Centrally-managed registries are already…

> what on earth are you talking about?

I'm talking about a global, universal API layer supporting standardised contract enforcement and value transfer between applications. A centralised implementation of this would clearly be a bad idea.

If you don't see utility in this I don't know what to tell you.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#512

Post by neuroma » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 2:35 PM UTC

This space appears filled with two types of folk: Those looking for the positives Those looking for the negatives

Is it possible that the tech and culture is deeply flawed and hypocritical, and yet the space is exploring new ground that will prove important...

I understand the attraction of writing a killer article that makes extreme claims and backs each subheading with a carefully picked strawman, but really, I'd just love to read about it all without the hot air.

It's a complex space and I want quality, balanced, open minded commentary. Suggestions welcome

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#513

Post by SergeAx » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 2:42 PM UTC

Animats wrote: post #99

OK. The reason all this happening is that Bitcoin really did go to the moon. That's what powers all this speculation. If the price of Bitcoin had been stable for a decade, and it worked reliably, it would be a useful medium of exchange, but nobody would care. This is all about MAKE MONEY FAST. Bitcoin found some early use cases. Drugs first. Then getting money out of China. Money laundering. Tax evasion. Scams. Bitco…

No, it's not zero sum. For every winner there is a bunch of loosers plus a lots of electricity burned.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#514

Post by vmception » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 2:45 PM UTC

> #2: NFTs prove neither ownership nor uniqueness

NFTs can prove current possession, it's not about legal ownership of the art. Colloquially this is called ownership, which is why we say ownership.

Surprising how complicated this is for people, when the user experience doesn't have any ambiguity about it at all.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#515

Post by vmception » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 2:49 PM UTC

> Imagine if personal bank accounts were this rife with fraud!

They are. Nobody is prosecuted. The user experience is nice because the depositor is typically reimbursed quickly. Banks often do lose the actual money though. Insurance and other redundancies were added retroactively by banks who didn't want to pay for insurance, and got the state to do it, simultaneously adding enough confidence to stuff their coffers under any circumstance.

There is insurance in the DeFi space too. People that open policies are reimbursed in hacks. It is interesting that these thought pieces seem to lack any use of the products or integration in the community as the language would be pretty different, but the irony is that nobody in the community is interested in writing these thought pieces.

It eludes most people that are disillusioned or were already chronically skeptical, but the most productive approach is to talk about the future state of these systems and how they can be improved. For example, I think it is absurd that people have to manually understand that there are competing third party insurance platforms they have to use for every DeFi operation they make, so it could instead be automatic to craft the best policy alongside their transaction into another DeFi platform.

It is incredibly lucrative to make ever-so-slight improvements to this space. The people that do build here do that, the activist investors in the space push teams towards roadmaps the teams didn't originally consider. I think many people miss that they can have outsized influence, its not going away so make it better.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#516

Post by Ygg2 » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 2:51 PM UTC

kranke155 wrote: post #502

Ygg2 wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read the article? > Technical issues always get solved. There are deeper issues with crypto than just technical. Even if it wasn't. Crypto is like every anarchistic idea implemented in reality. In essence, they are burning the wheel, only to reinvent it again. Badly.

I skimmed it. The amount of wrong takes in crypto is so large, you could spend your entire life doing it. Not worth it.

Yeah. Biggest wrong take in crypto is - we can solve societal problem with fancy algorithm.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#517

Post by darkFunction » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 2:52 PM UTC

dmitriid wrote: post #498

darkFunction wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The blockchain facilities standardised transfer across a decentralised medium. I'm not sure how much clearer I can make my point. You could code alternatives to all the use-cases mentioned, but when you have an existing platform on which to interact, why bother? You want the game developers to implement the winery's API?

> The blockchain facilities standardised transfer across a decentralised medium. It hasn't. It standardised the transfer of otherwise meaningless numbers, that's true. In order for your winde order to work, a centralised, trusted party has to verify and accept those numbers, and say that, yes, they represent something meaningful to them. The same goes for every other example. "Want to trade something for an in-game w…

You may continue to consider the numbers meaningless but the market for on-chain assets disagrees with you.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#518

Post by ThomPete » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 2:54 PM UTC

lottin wrote: post #436

ThomPete wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats not what is meant by it being enforcable. You are confusing things here. With enforcable, what is meant is anything that can be programmed into a contract and be executed will be executed (enforced). That can as an example be someone raising a million dollars for a crypto game by offering 10000 tokens for 100$ each. The million dollars are going to be unlocked in phases. 50k for proof of concept, 250k for alpha…

We already know what "enforce" means. You said blockchains can enforce "digital" whatever that means. The only thing blockchains can "enforce" is that data are added to the chain according to some rules. There isn't any type of property right, digital or real, that can be enforced in this way.

I already explained what enforcement means in this context giving you a very concrete example. Why don't you show how that example is not what I claim it is. Instead of just repeating what you already said.

I can't help you see something you don't want to see.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#519

Post by ThomPete » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 2:58 PM UTC

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #462

ThomPete wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blockchain governs the DIGITAL sphere and in there can actually enforce. People who are trying to combine crypto with physical assets are a shrinking number. Focus on digital and its absolutely enforcable, to an extent not even governments can accomplish.

> Blockchain governs the DIGITAL sphere and in there can actually enforce. how? it's all based on cryptographic keys, if I stole the keys, how can blockchain block me, without someone intervening?

You are answering your own question by asking the wrong one.

This is only a problem if it's in fact enforcable. There are many ways to solve the stealing among others multisig.

Re: Web3? I have my DAOts

#520

Post by kranke155 » Tue, Dec 07, 2021, 2:58 PM UTC

Ygg2 wrote: post #516

kranke155 wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I skimmed it. The amount of wrong takes in crypto is so large, you could spend your entire life doing it. Not worth it.

Yeah. Biggest wrong take in crypto is - we can solve societal problem with fancy algorithm.

that has been a common problem with tech utopians, and not one I'm personally interested in. Tech doesn't change society for the better automatically, but it can create incentives in the right direction. Are we really saying a world prior to the printing press was better? What about before freely available information online a la wikipedia? No way.