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Tech compensation in 2021

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Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#511

Post by nodejs_rulez_1 »

bruce343434 wrote: post #500
VRay wrote: post #15

Man, every time I think I’ve finally caught up to the market rate, I find out I’m behind again I’m a senior FAANG coder making 350k TC, and it looks like I should be able to net 400-600k at this level if I go to Apple or Google. Hoo boy, looks like it’s leetcode time again…

Ask yourself this: what are you missing out on right now? A number? What will you do with all that money? When is it enough?

A good question for CEOs, board members and investors to answer, perhaps? They should be pursuing passion, not money!

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#512

Post by franga2000 »

vincnetas wrote: post #466
franciscop wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything else being the same, it's better to make 300k than 175k/year. And not everything is the same, normally in those better paid jobs you have better Engineers, a lot of challenging problems, many nice perks, etc. What you don't normally have is flexibility to negotiate special conditions e.g. 4day work week. Also you don't get highly ethical companies, just average ones at that (and it might actually be better…

i had to read this twice to make sure i was reading it correctly: and it might actually be better to donate the diff between 300k and 175k vs working in a slightly more ethical place for 175k this really triggered me. you basically say its ok to do shady things as long as you give something to the poor. sounds so much like "indulgence" in Christian churches where you could pay off your sins. sad. i'd say money is not…

This is a very specific situation. Someone WILL fill that position at Evil Corp. and they will also get the 300k. The amount of evil done stays the same regardless of whether you take the position or not. But, if you take it and donate 100k to charity each year (especially one that works to undo harm done by your employer), more good is being done as well.

X harm + Y good > X harm + 0 good

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#513

Post by DrNuke »

da39a3ee wrote: post #417
DrNuke wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Europe also suffers from a brain drain to the US (and Canada to a smaller proportion). Many of Europe's best and brightest software engineers have already emigrated to the US, leaving behind the less productive ones. Of course not, it is just mind numbing regulation coupled with systematic risk aversion. Many SV startups would never have gained traction starting over from Europe, neither financially nor for large-s…

why does Europe not value engineers? Because the environment in the USA has created tech companies where engineers can achieve more?

Much longer history, higher fragmentation and the constant need to avoid wars after the fall of the Roman empire made humanities/politics/commerce prevail dramatically upon science/tech/innovation. Edit: you can see a living example of this at work again with the increasing feud between the EU and the UK after the Brexit (even before that but, you know, it was aptly defused from within).

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#514

Post by tourist2d »

bruce343434 wrote: post #500
VRay wrote: post #15

Man, every time I think I’ve finally caught up to the market rate, I find out I’m behind again I’m a senior FAANG coder making 350k TC, and it looks like I should be able to net 400-600k at this level if I go to Apple or Google. Hoo boy, looks like it’s leetcode time again…

Ask yourself this: what are you missing out on right now? A number? What will you do with all that money? When is it enough?

What are you missing out on right now?

Money.

What will you do with all that money?

Retire comfortably.

When is it enough?

When I can retire. Why not change jobs to earn 30% more for the same amount of work? You're essentially speeding up your retirement every time you increase your total compensation.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#515

Post by da39a3ee »

throwaway2016a wrote: post #425
monster_group wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not the GP and I mean no disrespect to you. Your below phrasing seems presumptuous to me - >>..someone who can answer the leet code questions easily (and has been able to for a decade)... If you are a CTO chances are you have not been practicing LC. Even if you were able to do LC style questions a decade ago, without practice you are very likely to struggle with them. So don't assume just because you are CTO / a…

I actually agree with you. You have a point. I would probably practice Leet Code or similar before I went back into the interview world just to freshen up. Though, with that said, I have been on the interviewer side a lot and need to know some of them well enough to know if the candidate knows their stuff. So I'm not completely rusty. And as CTO I would often read through what other companies are asking in interviews…

Maybe you didn't mean to use that word but it's not about "explaining" them: you have to be able to write the code to solve a given problem, on the spot. The problem might require a familiar technique such as breadth-first search but it will need to be adapted; the problem is likely to be slightly different from anything you've seen before.

It's true that at the staff interviews i just did, LC was not required but at the staff interviews i'm about to do they will be.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#516

Post by FartyMcFarter »

franga2000 wrote: post #512
vincnetas wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i had to read this twice to make sure i was reading it correctly: and it might actually be better to donate the diff between 300k and 175k vs working in a slightly more ethical place for 175k this really triggered me. you basically say its ok to do shady things as long as you give something to the poor. sounds so much like "indulgence" in Christian churches where you could pay off your sins. sad. i'd say money is not…

This is a very specific situation. Someone WILL fill that position at Evil Corp. and they will also get the 300k. The amount of evil done stays the same regardless of whether you take the position or not. But, if you take it and donate 100k to charity each year (especially one that works to undo harm done by your employer), more good is being done as well. X harm + Y good > X harm + 0 good

You're missing several important factors there.

- with fewer people interested in working at Evil Corp, salaries there will trend up and they may not be able to grow as much as a consequence.

- if the most skilled people don't want to work at Evil Corp, that also makes it harder to do evil.

I really hope people aren't using oversimplified analysis to justify working on evil stuff.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#517

Post by franciscop »

gambiting wrote: post #505
vincnetas wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i had to read this twice to make sure i was reading it correctly: and it might actually be better to donate the diff between 300k and 175k vs working in a slightly more ethical place for 175k this really triggered me. you basically say its ok to do shady things as long as you give something to the poor. sounds so much like "indulgence" in Christian churches where you could pay off your sins. sad. i'd say money is not…

It sounds pretty much on par for American approach to everything. It's ok to have shitty healthcare for the poor and pay less taxes, as long as you donate from time to time. Student loans? Medical loans? Shitty care for vets? No worries, Americans are the highest donating people on Earth by capita - so it's all fine. That last argument I keep hearing all the time - Americans are such good donators that they don't nee…

Way off base, we (I?) are not talking about paying taxes vs donations. In fact as an European myself now living in Japan yeah, tax the shit out of everyone, and stop bombing/gunning everyone and instead pay for healthcare+university with that money :)

Now since I'm not native I think I might have explained myself wrong; see sibling comment (to yours) I made clarifying what I meant.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#518

Post by habosa »

floxy wrote: post #325

For someone who is way out of this loop, what does a typical day look like for someone who make $300k at a "tech" job? $600k? Is it actually programming intensive? Like the guy who wrote the default calculator app on the iphone was making that kind of a salary? Or are you managing teams of programmers? Architecing? Is it something like 16 hour days are the norm?

At Google making 300k total comp means you're probably a high-performing L4 or a new L5 (senior). Your day can look like absolutely anything.

I know people making 300k that are writing hundreds of lines of high-quality code in important systems every single day for years in a row and also doing code reviews, system design, etc. Very productive engineers doing traditional tasks.

I also know people at that level who spend their days watching YouTube videos and hoping nobody notices. On many teams, nobody ever does. It's easier to hire one extra person at these big companies than to fire one.

All these two people have in common is that they can pass an interview and they know how to write an email.

(Aside: the latter category makes me pretty angry because I know so many good programmers in India, Eastern Europe, etc who could change their whole families' lives with that kind of money but can't get it from a lazy American)

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#519

Post by habosa »

i1856511 wrote: post #40

How many people go into programming now simply for the money? More than 70%? What percentage of programmers would still be programmers if competitive salary was not a concern in life, and people were free to simply pursue their passions?

I got into programming because I love computers and messing with them. I took a job as a professional Software Engineer because the job market was excellent and I could get paid for doing what I found fun. The money was good but I'd have done it for less at the time.

Now why did I _stay_ at a FAANG company doing mostly boring low-stakes work? For the money. I say that with no shame and I encourage others to consider doing it for the money.

It's life-changing money and the job is still pretty good! I still get to write code and talk about code for a living. I also have to go to some really stupid meetings and deal with bureaucracy and use strange tools but ... so what? It's still a good deal. Who knows when this market for our talents will disappear.

Re: Tech compensation in 2021

#520

Post by mikeywazowski »

xupybd wrote: post #244

Wow I work in NZ and with about 9 years exp I'm only just above the equivalent of $60k USD. I think I need to move.

Ah haha are you me? My situation is exactly the same - your comment makes me feel much better that I'm not the only one!

A few weeks ago I talked to a recruiter who confirmed that I'm being underpaid. Since then I've struggled to stay motivated, but I also really hate job hunting/interviewing etc. I'm technically self employed, working for a single client, so I'm considering telling him that I'm going to take Fridays off. If he doesn't like that idea I'll start job hunting for real.

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