A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing • Hacker News Board

Re: A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing

#511

Post by spoonjim » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 8:25 PM UTC

vtail wrote: post #347

gilrain wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a term for it: JAQing off. Just Asking Questions. It's used to put forward a distasteful argument without actually standing behind it. As in, "Why are you getting heated? I'm not condoning [whatever], I'm just asking questions."

You may well think so, but I was asking an honest question. I don’t think it’s distasteful to doubt any allegations, esp. when missing some context, in this case, 10 years old judgement against B&H.

But you should probably examine why you were so quick to assume that the allegations were baseless.

Re: A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing

#512

Post by jmcgough » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 8:27 PM UTC

gowld wrote: post #484

saxonww wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's ironic that you're saying he has to pay to run his business safely, when Amazon's set things up this way specifically because they don't want to pay to run their business safely. It's a little outrageous that a 3rd party can come take over your storefront without any avenue to challenge.

There is nothing wrong with Cliff's store front: https://www.kleinbottle.com The problem is in Amazon's storefront, and there millions of sellers are operating in the same space, so doing some due diligence is required. If Cliff could just seize ownership of his storefront from a thief, why couldn't a thief seize it from Cliff? The solution is to register a proper trademark. Like it or not, the world is messy, and it…

This logic assumes that it's cheap to get a trademark, whereas the parent says it'll cost $2000.

This leaves small hobby stores like Cliff's with no practical defense against scams like this if they've only made a few thousand in profits through amazon sales, especially if they don't have that cash on hand (and suddenly lose their amazon revenue stream!)

Like it's easy to say "well you should have trademarked your product" after the fact, but very few people have even heard of this scam when it happens to them.

Re: A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing

#513

Post by abawany » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 8:30 PM UTC

fma wrote: post #461

EricE wrote: post #449

A perfect example of why I buy less and less from sites that support 3rd party sellers. The problem is even once reliable sites like newegg.com are now playing these games. If I wanted the Ebay/alibaba experience I can get that! Why large retailer sites dilute their brand and frustrate customers in the fruitless chase of "being like Amazon" in catering to 3rd party sellers amazes and annoys me. At least most other si…

I buy a lot from Walmart now, to drive business away from Amazon (I would never have typed these words a few years ago...). First thing I do is click Retailer = Walmart.com.

Remember that Walmart and Best Buy also sell a lot of 3rd-party stuff now. I find it strange that on their site I always have to filter by Retailer=Walmart.com to get their listings and even then, it sometimes filters out some of their own listings.

Re: A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing

#514

Post by throwawaycities » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 8:34 PM UTC

blairanderson wrote: post #379

CliffStoll wrote: post #116

Guess I'd better say a few things. First, I deeply appreciate that so many on Hacker News have come out for this. Enough to awaken me from a sound sleep on a Tuesday evening! I don't really care that much about selling Klein bottles over Amazon - it's mainly to reach parents over the holidays. But I do wish that Amazon would do something about this kind of thing. Finally, I"m very low on stocks of glass Klein bottles…

Hi Cliff, I'm an independent amazon consultant. Your Amazon problems would be solved with a regular USPTO trademark. They don't recognize common-law trademarks because they are heavily arguable in litigation. USPTO is a database of trademarks already scrutinized by trademark attorneys and government. It's not perfect, but it is a collection that Amazon recognizes. You can do this for $2000-ish and never think about i…

I can save him the money…it would be highly unlikely the USPTO would grant a TM for “ACME Klein Bottle”.

In either case, or even in the case the was a seller legitimately infringing on a valid trademark, Amazon should not be reassigning reviews from one sellers product to another seller under these types of matters. How in the hell would that be beneficial to Amazon shoppers?

Re: A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing

#515

Post by code_duck » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 8:36 PM UTC

CliffStoll wrote: post #116

Guess I'd better say a few things. First, I deeply appreciate that so many on Hacker News have come out for this. Enough to awaken me from a sound sleep on a Tuesday evening! I don't really care that much about selling Klein bottles over Amazon - it's mainly to reach parents over the holidays. But I do wish that Amazon would do something about this kind of thing. Finally, I"m very low on stocks of glass Klein bottles…

This borosilicate shortage sounds worrisome! I’m inactive now, but did boro flamework for ~20 years and just wanted to say as a fellow glassblower that I love what you do with glass.

Re: A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing

#516

Post by beprogrammed » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 8:56 PM UTC

worik wrote: post #508

gowld wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing wrong with Cliff's store front: https://www.kleinbottle.com The problem is in Amazon's storefront, and there millions of sellers are operating in the same space, so doing some due diligence is required. If Cliff could just seize ownership of his storefront from a thief, why couldn't a thief seize it from Cliff? The solution is to register a proper trademark. Like it or not, the world is messy, and it…

The solution is for Amazon to be less horrid. There really are no polite words to describe business practices. Stop buying from Amazon. Quite easy actually.

Exactly, stop buying from Amazon.

There a software company running a software market, all the power is in there hands, and they choose to do nothing.

Re: A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing

#517

Post by hrdwdmrbl » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 8:57 PM UTC

danparsonson wrote: post #353

mentos wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The root cause is oxygen. Anyone expecting any other behavior from utility maximizing entities is naive?

I would counter that by saying anyone ascribing that mindset automatically to all humans is cynical ;-)

Disagree. It’s possible to start with that assumption and then design systems with that in mind.

Re: A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing

#518

Post by rfwhyte » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 9:02 PM UTC

This isn't an Amazon bug, it's a feature. Amazon has known for YEARS about sleazy (Mostly Chinese) sellers manipulating reviews, paying for review and generally engaging in super shady practices, and Amazon has done literally NOTHING about it, so at this point we can reasonable assume they tacitly condone these practices.

Amazon reviews have all but become useless as a result. Perhaps one of the least trustworthy corners on an increasingly trustless internet.

Re: A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing

#519

Post by bryanrasmussen » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 9:17 PM UTC

bawana wrote: post #236

Qwertious wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't buy this guy's klein bottles, they're a scam - they're only THREE dimensional! Such a rip off. How am I supposed to store a ŷ̶̺̎͌͐̿̽̊́̕ŏ̶̗̈́̓̍̎̃͠g̶̝̺̜̜͋̿̚ͅ-̷̧̛̈́̔́s̷̰̀͌́̈́ơ̷̝̭̫͛́͘ẗ̴̹̱̖̥́h̸̡̡͙̻̀o̸̹̘̾̀͗̇̕t̵̗̠̄̽̈́͑ḧ̵̳̰̩̲͈̜͉̝́́͌͐ in this thing?

Does anyone else see 10 vertical lines of characters that look like the ‘matrix’ font overlaid on the word ‘yog so Thoth’ in the last two lines of qwertious’ post?

yeah, but I see those everywhere... all the time!

Re: A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing

#520

Post by TheSpiceIsLife » Wed, Jun 30, 2021, 9:17 PM UTC

CliffStoll wrote: post #116

Guess I'd better say a few things. First, I deeply appreciate that so many on Hacker News have come out for this. Enough to awaken me from a sound sleep on a Tuesday evening! I don't really care that much about selling Klein bottles over Amazon - it's mainly to reach parents over the holidays. But I do wish that Amazon would do something about this kind of thing. Finally, I"m very low on stocks of glass Klein bottles…

I love my Klein bottle earrings, there so tiny! Thanks Cliff!