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Replit used legal threats to kill my open-source project

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Re: Replit used legal threats to kill my open-source project

#512
post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want justice, be prepared to pay for it. If you're unable to pay for it, you will not receive justice. I am aware that this is not the 1950's superman definition of justice. It is the "welcome to America" version of justice, that you often can't even get if you can pay for it, depending on who you are. So, you pick that fight. I've got a family and a life I need to protect; I'll stand on the sidelines and watc…

> I am aware that this is not the 1950's superman definition of justice. It’s not any definition of justice, its simply the rule of the powerful over the weak.

So, at least in the US justice system it's one dollar, one vote.

Re: Replit used legal threats to kill my open-source project

#513
A healthy, competitive reponse to a single former intern one-upping you would be something among the lines of "ok, kid see if you can replicate THIS".

Also a healthy response would be to issue a C&D - assuming they have a case here.

But this? We don't have all the details and Replit might well be in the right here, but still - that's not how you handle such cases.

And I should know, because I've been in trouble regarding my comments on HN with a company I used to work for, but the communication on their side was firm, polite and professional.

Re: Replit used legal threats to kill my open-source project

#514
On one hand, SV is full of sociopathic founders who'd torture you for breakfast just for the giggles. On the other, being a founder is incredibly hard and very stressful, and when you are stressed lines get murky, and you sometimes do things that you wouldn't do if you took a moment to rest.

I wouldn't immediately assume bad intentions where bad decisions in search for good outcomes were made. To know which one it was, one has to first know the people really well, and know them both when the times were good and the times were bad.

Someone once told me: "Never assume, you make an ass of you and me (ass|u|me)."

Re: Replit used legal threats to kill my open-source project

#515

> Naturally, I took down my project right away... So a CEO bullied you. He threatened to have lawyers look at something, accused you of behaving poorly, and accused you of being difficult. He is being manipulative. He is trying to guilt / scare you into stopping. And it worked. For all readers... do not be afraid of lawyers. Especially if nobody has even talked to them yet. Lawyers do not like to lose cases, so will…

While studying fine art I built a site that was intended to experiment with disrupting advertising by picking on a bullshit pseudo-scientific term, "bifidus digestivum", used by the company Danone as the live ingredient in their yoghurts, and ranking highly for that term on Google - it eventually got to the number 1 spot. Danone's legal team got in touch and we danced around each other for a bit. It was clear that the original domain used their trademark and that would be enforceable in court, so I gave that to them a couple of weeks after setting up a new domain that wasn't just their trademark and redirecting all the traffic until Google caught up with the move: https://whatisbifidusregularis.org/ (They'd changed the magic ingredient's name by that point, partially because of the ridicule the initial name provoked). I replied to their emails addressing their points - no, I was not making any money from it so there's no commercial harm, I was just laying out the facts so there was no defamation etc. and after two or three bits of back-and-forth they went away. The site's had something like 500,000 visits since I built it in the late 2000s, which isn't a lot in the large scheme of things, but I hope it helped people who wondered whether it was bullshit know that it was bullshit.

I'm speaking from a UK perspective, so perhaps in the US it's different. While ignoring lawyers is stupid, waiting until they actually get in touch and looking at the merits of their case is not stupid, as the parent comment says. Then if they seem minded to pursue it anyway then fine, back down. But companies don't want to spend loads of money suing someone with no money either. The people who really lose are the people who entirely ignore the lawyers or are determined to take a case to court when they don't have the money for it out of some misplaced sense of righteousness.

Re: Replit used legal threats to kill my open-source project

#516
If you follow Amjad on Twitter, it's evident that he is incredibly petty.

Repl.it is a company with no moat. They are features are literally used by dozens (check the number of runs of the repls)

Only companies which are so insecure about tech get into petty fights with college interns.

Re: Replit used legal threats to kill my open-source project

#517
All of what I write here is my opinion based on what I have seen referenced in the original post. There could be facts or circumstances that I am unaware of that render such opinion ill-informed. Please don't sue me or take offense -- I offer only insight from quite a bit of life experience.

From the email exchange posted [1], I would say Amjad was right in asking that the repository be taken down. Regardless of intent, Radon's actions had given the appearance of unethical behavior. Bear in mind that, when considering ethics, intent is not as important as appearance. While Amjad's statements were not necessarily optimal, I would not fault him for what he said. There are so many other adversities in life -- we should not make ourselves adversaries of one another.

A couple red flags that stood out:

(1) There is an implication that Amjad's time is owed to Radon. Radon's meticulous documentation and other content posted on the Internet is suggestive of overachievement and perfectionism, traits that can be very valuable in many technical domains. Unfortunately, personal correspondence usually is not one of those domains. One should always be most respectful of other people's time. Time is a non-renewable resource of unknown quantity.

(2) Some of Radon's statements and expressions, whether they do or do not contain truth, are quite adversarial and should be avoided in correspondence. Those that stood out to me are "You are categorically in the wrong," "... you have no legal or ethical basis ...," "... I have acted in good faith ... [and] your conduct ... has been grossly rude and unprofessional," "Despite repeated inquiry on my part, you have refused to point to any specific feature ...," "... your characterization of the morality of my actions is baseless and in bad faith," and "It's a shame that you decided to terminate our relationship this way." In all things, regardless of the circumstances, the first rule should be "Be respectful."

While I can imagine myself in Radon's shoes and empathize with what he did and why, experience has taught me that certain norms of civility, whether they be shallow or even illogical, are expected in discourse. My advise to Radon would be to let the whole thing slide. Life will bring so many more unexpected twists and turns; save time energy for life's truly important battles that are yet to come.

[1] https://imgur.com/a/OaEOwu2

Re: Replit used legal threats to kill my open-source project

#518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

especially a "new grad with no company, no funding, and no commercial ambitions"

.. doing an open source project that does what a bunch of other sites are doing to some extent. It looks like he was about a week into it. Choose your battles. I'm guessing this really isn't a big ambition for this guy, but he probably wanted to flesh-out the concept for his own satisfaction having not gotten that far during his internship. That motivation is not new to me, but I think standing down and moving on to…

I actually really appreciate that he wrote this post:

1. What if I'm considering working for Replit? This behaviour would give me second thoughts. 2. Imagine I'm a VC firm deciding whether or not to invest in them. I don't want me money being used to pursue a frivolous lawsuit against a website that isn't a commercial threat and probably isn't using their IP anyway.

Re: Replit used legal threats to kill my open-source project

#519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CEO is actually worried that this weekend project will make it hard for replit to raise fundings from investors because it makes it look like there is no moat to hosting hundreds of programming languages. The investors don't know that the code here doesn't scale.

Also, there is no moat. As far as I know, there are no major protected intellectual properties, technical or business learning curves, regulatory hurdles, intensive capitalization requirements, economies of scale... I suppose there may be some amount of network effect, but not so much that it's hard to imagine a competitor struggling to overcome it.

You are right. Other than the brand name recognition and the existing business relationships, I can't think of anything that would be tough for a funded competitor to replicate.

Re: Replit used legal threats to kill my open-source project

#520
post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would play devil's advocate here and say that the situation is probably muddier than it is presented in the blog. Also there appers to be a level of trust here (at least the Replit CEO trusted that OP will not make this go viral on HN and spiral into a PR nightmare I suppose, which though is the most entertaining path it can take) Not sure how talented OP is. This can as well be a case study of who not to hire.

I'm pretty skeptical. I think a rational actor wouldn't have made legal threats. Even if OP's project does somehow use some secret insight from replit, it's certainly not a threat to replit's business in any way. Legal action would be a waste of time, money, and PR. Which means that the legal threats levelled against OP are presumably coming from a place of emotion and personal resentment, and I'm very much not prepa…

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