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Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

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Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#511

Post by jschwartzi »

wyager wrote: post #396
simonsarris wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. After getting clearly-open-box (used? counterfeit? returned?) Makita batteries on Amazon I only buy tools from Home Depot, only buy camera equipment from B&H, etc. No more pricey tools or electronics from Amazon, or food for that matter (years ago, bought box of protein bars, came expired!)

I bought an $800 winch from Amazon, shipped and sold by Amazon, in “new” condition. When it arrived, not only was it clearly used, but it had been damaged by improper use and would have been extremely dangerous if I tried to use it. If I hadn’t known what to look for, I probably would have used it and been at risk of serious injury. Amazon is clearly marking returns as “new” if their clueless returns staff thinks the…

I wouldn't buy anything I need to trust on Amazon.

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#512

Post by diogenescynic »

My biggest gripe with Amazon is the low level substitution they do or allow sellers to get away with. Sometimes you buy something that shows 15 ounces but receive something that is 12.5 ounces or something is swapped out for a cheaper version (California olive oil for some global mix olive oil). Then you have to waste your time for requesting a refund or discount or whatever. Amazon is great for certain things, but I've found their service is way different from major metros like the Bay Area to other smaller metros (like Sacramento).

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#513

Post by nikanj »

Vake93 wrote: post #467

Happened to me as well. I got a Asus ROG Strix G15 laptop on 13 May(this month) and upon clearance from Sri Lankan customs (where I live) the UPS agents discovered that the contents was missing. UPS notified me this and report this to Amazon. They(UPS) held the package with them and didn’t deliver it to me as it was empty. Even in the commercial invoice the gross weight of the laptop package was just 1.81KG! The lapt…

Chargeback time! Hope you don’t have any Audible/Kindle/etc accounts, you’ll probably lose access to content you’ve bought, errm, licensed-with-no-binding-arbitration-clauses

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#514

Post by rantwasp »

sbarre wrote: post #496
rantwasp wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so, at what point is legitimate to involve the Credit Card company? you don’t even need to actually do it, tell cs you will do it unless it gets here in x days. issue a chargeback and move on.

As others have also said, doing a chargeback risks Amazon closing your account permanently. So if you're prepared to take that risk and never buy from Amazon again, sure.. go for it.. But given the centralization of vendors this can have bigger downsides than upside.

at what point do you call it a bad experience and just walk away?

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#515

Post by zzleeper »

an_opabinia wrote: post #378
ageitgey wrote: post #215

Like most people, I've ordered a lot of packages (hundreds?) on Amazon and almost never had a problem. In the rare case of a problem, Amazon would instantly refund me. But almost all those orders are under $1000. Everything changes when you have a problem with an expensive order. Amazon has a price threshold where the support system is different and the normal CS people are powerless. During lockdown, I ordered a Son…

I'm afraid of being downvoted, but the algorithm for an Amazon return looks something like: Your LTV = Forecasting total revenue from your transactions so far Revenue = The sum of your past transactions Refund? = LTV - Revenue - Refund Cost > 0 This is a much simpler, much more logical model. It appears everywhere, like with credit card disputes or when you get service discounts to not leave. Because when you don't g…

I think overall Amazon is making a mistake. When I interviewed with them a few years ago, they were well aware of the risk of short-term best choices being bad in the long term (can't elaborate due to NDAs).

For instance, in the short term it's better to take the loss instead of investigate. But that then makes your platform an easy pick for fraudsters, so you end up with way more fraud and way more costs overall. If you were a bit more thorough and spotted scammers better, you would have a higher cost _per incident_ but lower cost overall in the long term.

This is particularly true if you are such a big player that you are the market in practice (so general equilibrium effects cannot be ignored anymore). And reminds me a bit of what eBay did in the past (sided with buyers almost every time without investigating, and made selling much more difficult).

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#516

Post by adrr »

felixfbecker wrote: post #383
ptero wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For expensive stuff I almost never go with Amazon now: too many counterfeit / fly by night sellers. For "prosumer" items a store that serves professionals is likely to watch their suppliers very carefully and have customer-friendly policies when things hit a snag. For cameras and optics (and flash sticks) B&H is my go-to place. My 2c.

I just generally avoid Amazon Marketplace (third-party sellers) because returns are always a hassle in some way (shipping not covered, out-of-country return center to mail to, no shipping label, need to contact through email, force you to give reason why you want to return even though that is illegal, ...).

Doesn’t matter with commingling of inventory, you’ll get counterfeit items. I don’t buy certain items off Amazon like SD cards due to issues with counterfeit items. Also food products has issues, you’ll get items a month or two away from expiration.

If you watch all the videos on how to make money on Amazon. It involves buying liquidation items from places like TJ Maxx or other retailers selling second quality items. These items are commingled into regular inventory. The consumer ends up buying a second quality item for the “new” price.

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#517

Post by [deleted] »

Vake93 wrote: post #467

Happened to me as well. I got a Asus ROG Strix G15 laptop on 13 May(this month) and upon clearance from Sri Lankan customs (where I live) the UPS agents discovered that the contents was missing. UPS notified me this and report this to Amazon. They(UPS) held the package with them and didn’t deliver it to me as it was empty. Even in the commercial invoice the gross weight of the laptop package was just 1.81KG! The lapt…

[deleted]

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#518

Post by jquery »

mlyle wrote: post #483
an_opabinia wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm afraid of being downvoted, but the algorithm for an Amazon return looks something like: Your LTV = Forecasting total revenue from your transactions so far Revenue = The sum of your past transactions Refund? = LTV - Revenue - Refund Cost > 0 This is a much simpler, much more logical model. It appears everywhere, like with credit card disputes or when you get service discounts to not leave. Because when you don't g…

"LTV model of 'justice' here is, in my opinion, a lot lot better" Sure, it is, when you're rich. If you're some poor bastard who's scrimped up a whole lot of money to buy an expensive item, and Amazon figures you won't spend much money in the future, you get ripped off. There's a couple of externalities you've left out, too, because your LTV doesn't predict them: * Reputational costs * Risk of adverse legal outcomes,…

If a rich person went onto Amazon and bought something 50 times more expensive than anything else they’d ever purchased and claimed it didn’t arrive, Amazon would drop them like a hot potato.

You’re talking like there’s no legal recourse (or even financial, like a chargeback). There simple aren’t enough resources to track down the source of every sob story, the hard truth is this “inhuman” efficiency is a huge boon for the vast majority of us.

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#519

Post by LorenPechtel »

gambiting wrote: post #66
reikonomusha wrote: post #3

I do not trust Amazon to ship anything safely and securely anymore. Almost everything I receive is damaged, late, or mis-delivered. Books are especially abused somewhere in Amazon’s fulfillment. (They’re always bent, creased, or dirty.) Items that are supposed to be 1-day shipping typically take >=3, and Amazon’s tracking mostly says “oops! it’ll come trust us”. (Not verbatim, obviously.) Amazon’s return process is b…

I'm genuinely surprised that people have such vastly different experiences with Amazon. I made 231 orders with them last year(lockdown....) And haven't had a problem with a single one. Couple times I wanted to return something they just refunded me without asking to send the item back. Everything arrives next day, always(here in UK anyway), and the customer support is stellar compared to literally anywhere else. Anyo…

Yup, my track record with them is excellent, also.

I have received one wrong item (refunded, told to keep) and one item I didn't order. The only hassle I've ever had was a damaged item they were trying to talk me into accepting a discount rather than returning (a very heavy item, I'm sure shipping was an issue.)

There very definitely is an issue with counterfeits and their comingled inventory system needs to be nuked from orbit. I have once seen a product where it was pretty apparent *every* offering was garbage or counterfeit. I even reported one of the counterfeits to Amazon as the image revealed it was one of the garbage things, not the name brand it purported to be.

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#520

Post by numpad0 »

marban wrote: post #101
glandium wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon JP got a little worse ever since they started having their own delivery, which is not great compared to Yamato or Sagawa, which they were using before (and are still using sometimes, it's not clear under what conditions). But the difference is almost at the level of nitpicking. When you're used to top-notch service, and you suddenly get a subpar experience, that's kind of disappointing.

When did they make the switch? I've mostly had Yamato same-day in Tokyo or remote areas like Okinawa.

They didn't switch completely, but started using "Delivery Provider" as baseload bearer and use Japan Post/Yamato when makes sense.
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