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Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

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Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#511

Post by jandrese »

sharkmerry wrote: post #191
jandrese wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The even more crazy part is the proposed Jefferson has less than 1/10 the population of West or South California but still has a higher population than both Dakotas, Washington DC, Alaska, Vermont, or Wyoming. West California would still be one of the most populous states in the union, coming in just behind Ohio in 7th place and South California would be nipping on its heels. Silicon Valley would be ranked near Tenne…

> it's probably less crazy than having almost 40 million people be represented by just 2 senators when Wyoming has the same number of senators for barely half a million people. This was purposely the design of the Senate. This complaint should be more applied to the House, where we stopped increasing the number of reps as population grew

I don’t think the founding fathers really understood how much the population of the states would diverge over the years.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#512

Post by yesBoot »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #450
yesBoot wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rule of law, not majority. It may look that way should “one side” or the other control an official political body, but at least for now, we still abide election laws insuring the “rule of law” bit.

I don’t see how it runs contrary to the rule of law. Im not aware of any legal obstructions that couldn’t be overcome, especially if everyone involved wanted it to succeed.

It’s not that the laws could not enable this, but none do.

They have free agency. Why would the state reshape itself to satisfy people who are prisoners to their own psychosis alone?

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#513

Post by swordsmith »

hackyhacky wrote: post #140
thepasswordis wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those people in the middle of the country believe that if they all quit their jobs and demanded a government-given wage, that the country would starve to death. If all of the people at facebook, google, and twitter quit their jobs, however, all that would really happen would be that the country would get a bit more peaceful. You're talking about how much is taken in taxes. These people are talking about how much is g…

Sounds like someone's been watching a bit too much Fox Propaganda. Farms are already subsidized by the government. Imports are already subject to tariffs precisely to protect farmers. Who do you think pays for those subsidies, and who pays for the tariffs? Yeah, the "coastal elites" that you've been trained to hate. In farmers stopped benefiting from the largess of the coast, _they_ would starve to death, and everyon…

> Imports are already subject to tariffs precisely to protect farmers.

I think you got these backwards. Subsidies are provided because other countries imposes tariffs on US farm products.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#514

Post by seanmcdirmid »

a3n wrote: post #503
cronix wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read that they are interested. It would extend Idaho to the Pacific Ocean and give them a seaport in Coos Bay, if certain adjoining counties in the proposal join.

Idaho has a "seaport" already, in Lewiston (across the border from Clarkston WA). You get there by way of the Columbia River and locks. I often haul giant rolls of paper in my semi from the papermill in Lewiston.

Also by way of the Snake river (which gets to the Columbia just before the tri cities). The snake river goes all the Jackson hole, but isn’t navigable for most of that (well, those parts are very good for white water rafting).

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#515

Post by seanmcdirmid »

bobthepanda wrote: post #469
tppiotrowski wrote: post #467

Grant voted 1,471 to 895 for county officials “to meet and discuss relocating Idaho border.” Lake voted 1,341 to 463 for the “relocation of Idaho border” to be taken up in “county board of commissioners meetings.” Malheur voted 3,050 to 2,572 for “county court meetings regarding relocation of Oregon-Idaho border.” Sherman voted 429 to 260 in favor of “promoting moving Oregon-Idaho border.” Baker voted 3,064 to 2,307…

There’s also the question of whether or not Idaho would actually want to take them.

Could Idaho afford to incorporate that much more rural land without cities to increase its tax base? They purposely avoid even Bend because that’s where Oregon starts getting liberal.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#517

Post by SllX »

srswtf123 wrote: post #368
SllX wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have have that every two years: it’s called elections.

If every state is gerrymandered beyond all sanity, are any of our elections valid?

I suppose they wouldn’t be if your entire electoral profit and loss statement comes down to one seat in the goddamned House of Representatives and we are all slaves to lines on a map because those lines, those lines are destiny.

But srswtf123, seriously, wtf? You tell me how many offices you were asked to fill in the last ballot you filled out and how many completely asinine laws you were asked to vote yes or no on. Constitutional amendments are two points if you got any of those on your ballot. In my neck of the woods, the locals love sticking complete crap in our constitution to keep it outside the reach of State courts.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#518

Post by throwaway00127 »

mrcartmenez wrote: post #380
mjevans wrote: post #35

Given the article's mention of Rural vs Urban I lean towards the belief that this is driven by a sense of both conservative values in government and probably a lack of understanding in how the government of the people serves the people. More precisely how taxes and math work. The GAO and similar offices should do a better job of preparing reports on where every collected tax dollar is being spent; both in the physica…

It’s simply that lower childhood IQ at age 5 is an indicator of conservatism in adults. One might interpret this as people who find it hard to understand the world are often easier to fool into thinking their problems are because of someone else, or to scare into believing that what they do have is at risk from “others”.

Lower IQ in adults is linked to voting liberal and Democrat [1].

[1] https://www.unz.com/anepigone/politics-and-iq-conservative-d...

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#519

Post by d110af5ccf »

causality0 wrote: post #432
ethbr0 wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Total installed powerline length vs population is a problem. Whether they're new / old or well / poorly serviced is just a difference of a few decades. If there isn't money to service old lines now, then there won't be money to service formerly-new lines in 30 years.

It's not a question of insufficient funds. They spent five billion dollars on shareholder dividends while corporate documents show they were completely aware the equipment was breaking down and posed a wildfire risk, and they broke multiple state regulations to do so.

Some background to add to the above: https://twitter.com/tubetimeus/status/1306366930899460097 and https://www.buttecounty.net/Portals/30/CFReport/PGE-THE-CAMP...

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#520

Post by vkou »

jameshart wrote: post #501
samatman wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What sort of logic supports that American values are those held by a minority of Americans. What possible values suggest they are the normal ones? America has been here for a long time. It's fair to say that values which are of long standing, still held by a significant fraction of the population, and them disproportionately descended from ancestors who have been American for many generations, are more American val…

> values which are of long standing, still held by a significant fraction of the population, and them disproportionately descended from ancestors who have been American for many generations, are more American values than ones which fail one or more of these criteria So, in an Oregon context, this would mean the values of the Chinook peoples?

Don't be silly, we're not talking about those values.
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