LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online • Hacker News Board

Re: LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online

#511

Post by gunshai » Thu, May 06, 2021, 1:29 PM UTC

dmos62 wrote: post #475

capableweb wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course "cesspool" is bad, "alt-right cesspool" is the same amount of badness. The reason you don't see a lot of "alt-left cesspool"s is because usually those people don't need to hide on alternative social media, as the mainstream ones are fine with alt-left people. Alt-right are the ones who are currently being fired if their opinion are being shared publicly. Now I'm neither of those, and have no fists in the fi…

I'm of the opinion that ignorance and closed-mindedness is the problem, not what ignorant and closed-minded people come up with. Can't fight fire with fire. That's why I don't think that we should identify them with their ideas. For the purposes of society, their discussions on that site are (supposedly) destructive. That's all the information we need to have a wholesome debate. To withdraw to identifying people with…

It is nice to see this sentiment I hope to continue to see more of it not only in words but action as well.

I've been taking a stand in my own life with friends about having hard conversations and not just drinking the coolaid of every inflammatory headline.

Its been very difficult to discussing with some friends that their views are far more radical than they realize.

Some time these conversations can be agonizing because ultimately you may not care "what side is correct" just that there is an honest discussion about the facts of the matter and even going into the facts of the matter can cause repulsive reactions.

Its strange the world we live in, in terms of discussions of ideas.

Re: LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online

#512

Post by kfarr » Thu, May 06, 2021, 1:29 PM UTC

varispeed wrote: post #404

causality0 wrote: post #69

I do hope you also understand our reasons I mean, I'd like to try, except he didn't actually give us any of those reasons. Rest in peace, LiveLeak. You were a beacon of reality that shone through the propaganda, the bullshit, and the sugar-coating. Your demise means that people who want to see something like a shooting that's been removed from mainstream platforms will be forced to visit darker corners of the interne…

I think it's a first victim of the new EU regulation. Probably many more websites like this will fold, because it will not be possible to run them any more. Have a read: https://decoded.legal/blog/2021/04/the-eus-terrorist-content...

First answer I've seen on this thread with an actual reason for the shut down

Re: LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online

#513

Post by Majestic121 » Thu, May 06, 2021, 1:33 PM UTC

ohbleek wrote: post #473

capableweb wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems we're already getting a bit heated, as neither you nor I mentioned something about "wholesomeness" but here we are. My point is not that alt-right opinions are wholesome, but rather that since they don't have a lot of places they can write their opinions without getting overrun by opposition, it's only natural they'll retract into properties where they can freely talk. For example: If you're of the opinion that…

Saying homosexuality shouldn’t be legal isn’t an opinion, it’s bigotry. Viewpoints that infringe on a persons rights are not opinions, it’s discrimination. I agree people should be able to speak freely but I also believe in standards. To take another example, if somebody has the “opinion” that women shouldn’t be able to refuse their husbands sexual advances, is this discussion that is acceptable or is it bigotry? Sho…

You'd be surprised how much of an opinion 'Homosexuality should be legal' is.

It's so much an opinion that a good chunk of the world makes it illegal one way or another : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_terr...

Russia even created new 'anti gay propaganda' laws recently, after allowing gay relations in 1993, so it's not even a 'it takes time to reach this stage' cultural milestone.

But even though I think we can both agree that LGBT rights are a good thing, you have to remember that all the advances that we saw on this front is precisely because LGBT people crossed 'the line' of acceptability of their time.

And they had to fight people that had the exact same kind of reaction against free speech. "Saying homosexuality should be legal isn’t an opinion, it’s heresy."

Re: LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online

#514

Post by xtian » Thu, May 06, 2021, 1:34 PM UTC

yesenadam wrote: post #507

xtian wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Economic pressure” also kills children and brings suffering to the people. The fact is that the US has bankrolled or committed itself atrocities just as gruesome as any of the “evil dictators” against which our media drums up popular fervor. Look into what we did in the Marshall Islands, for instance, (documented in the film The Coming War on China ) or what we bankrolled in Chile under Pinochet. But let’s not prete…

> let’s not pretend our opinions have any significance in these matters. I disagree strongly with this. That's what the powerful want you to think and feel—that your opinion has no significance. Fortunately, it's not true.

Facing the reality I mentioned is the only opinion that matters. From there we can start to talk about building something new. Otherwise, have all the anti-war protests and activism in the last 20-30 years curtailed the US war machine one bit?

Re: LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online

#515

Post by bsanr2 » Thu, May 06, 2021, 1:34 PM UTC

jm__87 wrote: post #478

lmm wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of car "accidents" (more properly collisions) are the predictable result of policy choices.

What policy change could possibly be made to make people better drivers?

I imagine there are several.

American driver education and testing are notoriously lax compared to much of the world; make driver testing more intensive and frequent.

Traffic enforcement is geared more towards municipal income generation and the facilitating of searches and arrests for other crimes than toward ensuring safe driving; stop pulling over poor people to search for drugs and start photographing and billing middle class and rich people for speeding or for idling in the middle/passing lane.

Car manufacturers jack up the price on critical safety features and make it difficult to retrofit them into existing vehicles; regulate them.

Our roadways are often designed poorly, mixing use cases in ways that result in unnecessary injury (e.g., "stroads" and intersections with poor pedestrian design); regulate and fix those.

Re: LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online

#516

Post by mekkkkkk » Thu, May 06, 2021, 1:34 PM UTC

dvdgsng wrote: post #476

mekkkkkk wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminded me of an initiative that the Swedish government had going for a number of years, where they distributed a very graphic (lots of pictures) and cold description of the Holocaust to middle school students. The whole point of it was (as far as I can tell) to establish a compass of what true evil looks like, to never let history repeat itself. The title of the book was literally "Tell Ye Your Children", and…

pdf freely available here (EN version): https://web.archive.org/web/20210206111359/https://www.levan...

Oh! Good find. Wasn't quite as graphic as I recall, but I remember that photo of the dying, seemingly terrified child on the sidewalk very well. Glancing through it now I gotta say I'm quite impressed by it. Interesting that they note how the book was "initially intended for adults" in the foreword.

Re: LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online

#517

Post by ticviking » Thu, May 06, 2021, 1:37 PM UTC

ggggtez wrote: post #312

imranq wrote: post #216

Why is there so much fetishization of violent content in the comments? Sure maybe liveleak provided some footage you couldn't get on youtube and that is indeed a loss, but to think that the violence you see represents the truth is just as bad as denying that any bad happens in the world. The world is far larger than any one mind can handle. I wouldn't judge it from a few videos taken out of context. The world can be…

While you probably won't hear free-speech advocates shouting nearly as loudly for this as for view-point-diversity (ahem)... there is some legitimate concern that this content is often legal. And more than that... it was often news-worthy. The kind of stuff on that site included war crimes, murders, armed robbery, reckless disregard for the safety of others, accidents caused by poor city maintenance... You may not li…

I think that viewpoint diversity is properly seen as the canary for newsworthy content like this. Not that I have much faith that most see it that way.

Re: LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online

#518

Post by JeremyNT » Thu, May 06, 2021, 1:39 PM UTC

capableweb wrote: post #372

dmos62 wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now if someone asks me "Hey where can I go see that thing that was taken off of Youtube" I don't have a ready answer that isn't an alt-right cesspool. You complain about some sites being alt-right cesspools, as if being a cesspool is not bad on its own.

Of course "cesspool" is bad, "alt-right cesspool" is the same amount of badness. The reason you don't see a lot of "alt-left cesspool"s is because usually those people don't need to hide on alternative social media, as the mainstream ones are fine with alt-left people. Alt-right are the ones who are currently being fired if their opinion are being shared publicly. Now I'm neither of those, and have no fists in the fi…

This is demonstrably untrue. [0]

[0] https://www.reddit.com/r/ChapoTrapHouse/

Re: LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online

#519

Post by throwaway8581 » Thu, May 06, 2021, 1:40 PM UTC

concordDance wrote: post #389

causality0 wrote: post #69

I do hope you also understand our reasons I mean, I'd like to try, except he didn't actually give us any of those reasons. Rest in peace, LiveLeak. You were a beacon of reality that shone through the propaganda, the bullshit, and the sugar-coating. Your demise means that people who want to see something like a shooting that's been removed from mainstream platforms will be forced to visit darker corners of the interne…

> Now if someone asks me "Hey where can I go see that thing that was taken off of Youtube" I don't have a ready answer that isn't an alt-right cesspool. Does this mean that only the alt-right have access to uncensored information?

Human biodiversity, intelligence variation, black-on-white and black-on-Asian crime statistics, connection between homosexuality and pedophilia, George Floyd saying “I can’t breathe” before the officers ever touched him and having a lethal dose of fentanyl in his system, rate of unarmed blacks killed by police being lower than the black proportion of violent crime. All of these 100% true facts (no value judgments in this post) can only be discussed in alt-right forums.

Re: LiveLeak shuts down after 15 years online

#520

Post by ticviking » Thu, May 06, 2021, 1:44 PM UTC

spoonjim wrote: post #289

jamestimmins wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After the photojournalist James Foley was beheaded by Isis, I read a thoughtful editorial arguing that we shouldn't watch it, in part because people were ultimately doing it not to become more informed, but to test their ability or willingness to stomach it. It also argued, that ultimately this was a form of entertainment. To address the argument that we should "see how horrible the world is", I think it's worth aski…

I don’t think it’s entertainment any more than reading the news is entertainment. I know that LiveLeak for example changed my view on capital punishment. You can sit in a coffee shop and debate things but once you see a guy cut out another guy’s beating heart in front of his son (before doing the same to the son) you think, “they really ought to execute that guy.”

It reminds us that in fact Evil does exist. And that despite it's flaws our society does an aweful lot to keep it from intruding into our lives.

Seeing some of those things helped me understand why people in the past did such radical things to avoid capture.