Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work • Hacker News Board

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#511

Post by bart_spoon » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 2:01 PM UTC

_bohm wrote: post #469

heymijo wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This past year wasn't WFH. This was WFH during a pandemic. Thinking they are the same is a mistake.

Curious what you think the main differences are. Never did WFH until the pandemic, and will probably continue working from home for some time after things open back up. I have a hard time seeing how my day-to-day will differ significantly post-pandemic.

Many people don't actually have a setup optimized for working at home, or at least didn't for much of the pandemic. Seemed like half of my team had to buy a desk because they didn't have one before the pandemic started. People are working at their kitchen table on a hard chair with their 3 roommates or family members milling about. And a lot of the country has had schools closed or remote for much of the last year, meaning parents are trying to work while trying to watch their kids and make sure they are getting into the right Zoom meetings, doing their schoolwork, etc. No wonder some people are desperate to get back into the office.

But a true work from home setup likely involves having a dedicated home office space, with the right setup. Even now, a lot of people don't have that.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#512

Post by benibela » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 2:03 PM UTC

tootie wrote: post #36

bilal4hmed wrote: post #13

After spending more than a year remote, full remote is difficult ( not impossible ) . Most of us have settled on 3 days at home, 2 days at work, so we can socialize, make new connections or just simply have lunch. Going back to in office 100% is a thing of the past unless you are a team that has to be there - making hardware etc. For ex I cant imagine the Pixel team working 100% remote.

I'm a senior manager and also a hardcore introvert. In my many years of office work I would actively avoid having lunch around anyone from the office as much as possible. Lunch is my only alone time when I'm crammed in an office all day.

I also basically never had a lunch with anyone. Only when everyone travels somewhere as a team building event, but then I do not talk during lunch. Not even as kid with my family, I would always read a book during lunch rather than talking

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#513

Post by benibela » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 2:05 PM UTC

castlecrasher2 wrote: post #7

As someone who's worked only remotely for several years, this makes sense. I know many will disagree with this assertion but in my estimation in-person collaboration is far better than online-only. I think the best balance is at least a couple days per week in the office and the rest remote.

It becomes rather chaotic when some people are in the office and some are remote.

When everyone is fully remote, you should always reach them quickly by dropping a chat, but when they are offline they tend to be stuck in meetings

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#514

Post by mattm » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 2:06 PM UTC

arwhatever wrote: post #492

tudorconstantin wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm totally not an introvert: I love being around nice people, I love playing table tennis and having lunch with my colleagues. But wasting 1h-2h daily on commuting to/from work is in absolutely no way worthy of this. It's our duty as human beings to resist going back to the office as much as possible. To gain back some of the life we otherwise would spend on commute. Work is for work, not for socializing, or having…

I've created https://sievejobs.com to allow software developers to simply "block" contacts regarding jobs that don't match your preferred working arrangements. I try not to build too much of an us-vs-them philosophy into either the site design or the marketing message, but I hope to soon have an XHR-type feature where the hiring manager instantly sees the effect that each piece of job metadata (remote work-ability, i…

lol, nice domain name :)

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#515

Post by caskstrength » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 2:08 PM UTC

_bohm wrote: post #469

heymijo wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This past year wasn't WFH. This was WFH during a pandemic. Thinking they are the same is a mistake.

Curious what you think the main differences are. Never did WFH until the pandemic, and will probably continue working from home for some time after things open back up. I have a hard time seeing how my day-to-day will differ significantly post-pandemic.

> Never did WFH until the pandemic, and will probably continue working from home for some time after things open back up. I have a hard time seeing how my day-to-day will differ significantly post-pandemic.

I would assume for people with children being able to offload them to public education institutions during work hours will be significant difference.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#516

Post by bart_spoon » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 2:09 PM UTC

llampx wrote: post #311

alexgmcm wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can have social contact outside of work though. WFH gives people back time to explore hobbies, join clubs, meet people etc. The social contact you have at work often feels forced and artificial - you can choose your friends, your colleagues not so much.

Does wfh really give back time to people? From what I've seen with colleagues and friends, it mostly has led to longer working hours. The commute time and the time before dinner has been replaced by more work. If you have been able to draw the line and log off at 5pm, good for you, but that's not the experience for a lot of people.

> If you have been able to draw the line and log off at 5pm, good for you, but that's not the experience for a lot of people.

That's a personal issue though. It seems backwards to insist on an in-person work environment because someone doesn't have the personal discipline to log off at 5pm on their own.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#517

Post by koide » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 2:23 PM UTC

Even though it's clear that to each their own. It's amazing how hard people can make life for themselves. I'm totally for you working at an office if you feel you're more successful and happier that way. But given you are somewhat forced to do something else, try to make it work. Of course there are exceptions and that people may have really dramatic households that make all of the below impossible. But, how many are there, really? I think it's mostly a matter of communicating and setting expectations properly.

a) I'm interrupted at home. Communicate, talk to your kids and rest of the family (works from ages 4 and up, before then you need to agree for a partner/caretaker to handle kids) and let them know there are times they can't interrupt you but the key here is: offer times where they can! You can't expect to be left alone 8 hours a day in a row in this new arrangement.

b) I can't work without pressure. Communicate, talk to your teammates and have a virtual room where you just work, without talking unless there's a question. There's also focusmate.com if you are afraid of your coworkers. Also, create a routine for yourself. Be unafraid of asking for help.

c) I don't have friends or family. Will an office really change that? I know that the friends I made working at an office I still have, and that I've made friends working remotely too. As well as having the friends I made when young.

Finally, many workplaces are not enabling workers to be successful remotely, becuase they don't know how to or they don't want to. You need to encourage async, reduce (not increase!) meetings, and offer more freedom to accommodate for the above.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#518

Post by koide » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 2:23 PM UTC

blaser-waffle wrote: post #464

bumbada wrote: post #334

I have been working remotely for decades. Most people can't work remotely and productively because they are not trained to do so. E.g. You are in your office (inside your home) and your wife, your dog or child enters it demanding you do some kind of non important issue right now, distracting you from your work.You need to be trained to not them let them distract you. The people living in your house need to be trained…

> Most people feel alone because they lack the social skills to make friends outside work, or just lack the initiative, knowledge and internal motivation to work without external pressure and supervision. I've been remote for ~5 years now, and making friends as an adult, esp. in a new city or location, isn't easy. But you're right, when you're remote you have to make an effort to build social bridges yourself. That's…

I believe I've made friends of some of my remote coworkers... That's also a thing.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#519

Post by belval » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 2:31 PM UTC

thirtythree wrote: post #441

belval wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For real, how hard is it to say "I am working, talk to you at lunch"?

OP already explained that the partner does not see sitting at a computer as working. They have different underlying assumptions which need to be addressed. That can be hard but not worth throwing away a relationship unless one person won't work towards resolving it.

HN is not /r/relationships so I don't want to discuss healthy relationships too much, but their partner not seeing sitting at a computer as working does not mean that reminding them that it is in fact working won't change their behavior.

If anything I empathize with OP because I had the exact same issue with my partner where she'd come to show me tiktoks while I was working but when I said I did not want to be disturbed she stopped. Sure she teased me about being too serious but I just don't see how a healthy relationship could have something like this escalate...

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#520

Post by ThrowawayR2 » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 2:31 PM UTC

hyko wrote: post #140

When will introverts realise that their working conditions are being dictated to them by extroverts? The pandemic-driven remote working is hell for some people, and unfortunately they call the shots. I don’t mind coming into your office now and again (there’s a special dimension to IRL connections), but the reason I don’t want to work there full time is that it’s crap for knowledge work. I outspend you by 10x per hea…

I'm an introvert as well but even I recognize the effectiveness of face-to-face interactions and the necessity of creating team cohesion and esprit-de-corps. That is simply not happening in total WFH despite the best efforts of both managers and individuals. There was a recent posting on HN (https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/30/microsoft-message-to-manager...) where Microsoft reports significant drops in team connectedness as the pandemic continued.

As for "The pandemic-driven remote working is hell for some people, and unfortunately they call the shots.", one might want to ponder _why_ the extroverts got into a position where they're calling the shots. Mastering the art of human interaction is important, even for introverts.