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‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

nytimes.com

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Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#511

Post by chordalkeyboard »

treis wrote: post #445
slg wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you expand on what you mean by "far left politics"? Reminder, this happened in late 2018 and early 2019. It was before this year's round of Black Lives Matter protests. It was also before Coinbase issued its no politics edict. I am really struggling to think of what "far left politics" you are referring to here that would be important enough to the Black employees of Coinbase that it results in 75% of them leavin…

Most other tech firms make a specific effort to recruit Black people, promote them, and support causes Black people support. Coinbase's position is that while they support those things they want to focus on their cryptocurrency mission. Given that, the expected outcome would be 0 Black people working at Coinbase. If you were black, you'd much rather work for the firms actively trying to recruit and promote you.

> Most other tech firms make a specific effort to recruit Black people, promote them, and support causes Black people support.

Really? "Most other tech firms" do this?

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#512

Post by kortilla »

wpietri wrote: post #436
roenxi wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Starting with the assumption that they are racist, that is the tip of a nasty iceburg. Starting with the assumption it is a pretty normal company, that is a list mostly of stuff that nobody should care about. If someone can articulate what the HR complaints are about then that might be evidence. But complaints to HR are expected - that is why HR gets hired. They are there to deal with HR complaints. And read resumes.…

Racism is endemic in the US. It was founded with the notion that black people were basically livestock. We've slowly and fitfully moved away from that, but the problem is far from over. With any company we should assume that both personal and systemic bias are present. Which is why well-run companies work to counter that.

> Racism is endemic in the US. It was founded with the notion that black people were basically livestock.

The existence of slavery in the past isn’t driving the current race issues in the US so much as fallout from much more recent segregation policies. Nobody alive today was a (or was born to) a slave and the majority of the states that make up the United States were not even part of the country during the civil war.

To claim racism is endemic now because of slavery is lazy. Racism is endemic because segregation didn’t end until approximately the same time as TCP/IP was being invented!

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#513

Post by chandra381 »

Taek wrote: post #285
Sacho wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I apologize in advance because you seem to be emotionally invested in this, but I really do not understand the questions you pose in your comment. What did you actually expect from the discussion? Were there not enough comments against Coinbase? Were there not enough comments outraged about the perceived racist behavior of it? Do you think none of those commenters "imagine the possibility that racism is a problem in…

The response from Coinbase does not feel to me like one that would be presented by a company that is effectively seeking out and mitigating pockets of racism within the org. The comments section on HN do not leave me feeling like racism is being given enough consideration within the community.

> The comments section on HN do not leave me feeling like racism is being given enough consideration within the community.

Like it or not, there's an instinctive urge to deny that there are problems, and make it look like the victim is at fault for complaining. Nobody sits down and actually listens to what they have to say. Really disappointed by the HN community on this - and a bunch of big VCs - Jason Calacanis, Paul Graham, Balaji Srinivasan - who flocked to the defence of Coinbase after the memo pre-empting the story, but then were conveniently silent once the report actually came out.

I think this is a broader silicon valley problem - that oh, our companies are perfect! We can do no wrong. This applies to sexism, racism, any kind of -isms. It might also be illuminating reading to take a look at what HN commenters were saying about for example Susan Fowler's blog post (questioning her credentials, speculating that she was making false allegations) or even the Google protests about Andy Rubin's payout.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#514

Post by sksnskkcahan »

bra-ket wrote: post #484
enumjorge wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Several black employees claim to have experienced racism at a noteworthy tech company. It’s been posted to HN for the same reason all the other stories, discussion. Do these employees need to ask you for permission before they can go to the press to talk about what they experienced? You complain about baseless accusations and then make a claim about this being extortion for settlement money.

If their rights have been violated why don't they go to court with all the available evidence? Accusation of racial discrimination in a workplace is a serious deal, and it's not up to the media to decide who's right or wrong solely based on one side (disputed) claims. It's called defamation and they are legally liable.

Are you saying that the highest standard you’d hold a company to is mere compliance with the law? Hope I never have to work somewhere where that’s the best we can do.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#515

Post by kortilla »

tptacek wrote: post #67
polartx wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re truly ignorant to the social pressures the black community places on each other (specifically the prevailing majority on the ‘dissident’ thinkers), than it’s a topic I suggest you read in to.

Black Democrats (most Black people are Democrats, something for which there is some social pressure) are generally more conservative, and significantly more religious, than other Democrats. So: no, this isn't responsive to what I said. (One good source: White & Laird).

> which there is some social pressure

Lol, that’s understating it a bit. The president elect said “you ain’t black” to black people who even consider Trump. An old white man confidently telling black people their identity is jeopardized if they even consider not voting for him.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#516

Post by Gibbon1 »

chandra381 wrote: post #513
Taek wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The response from Coinbase does not feel to me like one that would be presented by a company that is effectively seeking out and mitigating pockets of racism within the org. The comments section on HN do not leave me feeling like racism is being given enough consideration within the community.

> The comments section on HN do not leave me feeling like racism is being given enough consideration within the community. Like it or not, there's an instinctive urge to deny that there are problems, and make it look like the victim is at fault for complaining. Nobody sits down and actually listens to what they have to say. Really disappointed by the HN community on this - and a bunch of big VCs - Jason Calacanis, Pa…

> I think this is a broader silicon valley problem - that oh, our companies are perfect! We can do no wrong. This applies to sexism, racism, any kind of -isms.

Shorter: We can't be racist! All we care about is money.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#517

Post by 2-tpg »

i-write-comment wrote: post #460
CryptoPunk wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The Hennepin County medical examiner said that Floyd bloodwork showed a “fatal level of fentanyl,” according to court documents, but he didn’t say this killed him." Seems a bit pedantic and disingenuous to say that the examiner didn't attribute the death to an overdose, without providing the above context. I'm not here to defend the knee-on-the-neck arrest of a handcuffed suspect, but the evidence as it stands holds…

Actually I think what the other poster did is disingenuous, which was to repeat a (false) claim that Floyd died from an OD, and not mention the fact that the medical examiner conclusively ruled he died from a heart attack caused by suffocation, and ruled the manner of death a homicide.

He was dying from an OD, brutishly helped along by a poorly applied restraint move, held too long, because filming onlookers challenged the authority of the cop, and the cop was afraid to have to fight Big Floyd, before the ambulance arrived.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#518

Post by bra-ket »

sksnskkcahan wrote: post #514
bra-ket wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If their rights have been violated why don't they go to court with all the available evidence? Accusation of racial discrimination in a workplace is a serious deal, and it's not up to the media to decide who's right or wrong solely based on one side (disputed) claims. It's called defamation and they are legally liable.

Are you saying that the highest standard you’d hold a company to is mere compliance with the law? Hope I never have to work somewhere where that’s the best we can do.

yep, compliance with the law would suffice, thank you very much.

I'd take that vs. a company driven by woke trend of the day.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#519

Post by jollofricepeas »

tptacek wrote: post #348
roenxi wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The employee's. If someone makes a complaint to HR it might easily be illegal to investigate then broadcast it to the world accompanied with a "this employee is full of it" style message. Doing that might, for example, damage that employees prospects of finding employment or reveal specific personal details. Certainly appalling form, probably illegal.

You are, due respect, basically just making this up. Companies publish investigator reports of bias and discrimination somewhat regularly. It's possible that Coinbase contractually can't disclose the reports they've already commissioned --- in which case they probably ought not to have tried to refute the article with them --- but they can certainly commission a new one that they can disclose. It's a 600+ employee co…

The amount of speculation with regards to this topic among “engineers” and “innovators” is kind of amazing.

The HN community appears to be no more rational or evidence-based finders of fact than those found in the comments section of Fox News or the New York Times.

What hope do we have if the creators and maintainers are prone to the same proclivities as the users?

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#520

Post by i-write-comment »

2-tpg wrote: post #517
i-write-comment wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually I think what the other poster did is disingenuous, which was to repeat a (false) claim that Floyd died from an OD, and not mention the fact that the medical examiner conclusively ruled he died from a heart attack caused by suffocation, and ruled the manner of death a homicide.

He was dying from an OD, brutishly helped along by a poorly applied restraint move, held too long, because filming onlookers challenged the authority of the cop, and the cop was afraid to have to fight Big Floyd, before the ambulance arrived.

Anything to avoid admitting that a cop killed a black man in cold blood by kneeling on his neck for eight minutes, even after he said "I can't breathe" repeatedly.

> because filming onlookers challenged the authority of the cop, and the cop was afraid to have to fight Big Floyd.

Are you suggesting that cops are such snowflakes that they can't do their jobs if a civilian criticizes them? I'm struggling to think of any other customer-facing job where that would be acceptable. This is like suggesting that it's fine if a waiter throws your meal in the trash and refuses to comp you because you complained that it was taking too long. They would be fired on the spot, for the crime of slightly inconveniencing you!

Also, there were FOUR cops there. Are you trying to suggest that an experienced cop, with three other cops present, was afraid of one guy who was supposedly so incapacitated that he was actively dying before even being subdued?

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