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YouTube-dl's repository has been restored

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Re: YouTube-dl's repository has been restored

#511

Post by varispeed »

noema wrote: post #499
grishka wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Labels must go too. Artists legitimately needed them when distribution required physically producing and distributing media to stores. With the advent of the internet, this is no longer required, so these middlemen serve no practical purpose any more. They're an unfortunate holdover.

For mainstream labels, sure, but independent labels still serve an important curatorial role.

Small labels are nothing like the big ones, just like small software shop is nothing like Google. We need laws that will require companies to split once they reach certain thresholds otherwise this is just getting nasty. At certain point companies get unfair competitive advantage and they have so much money they literally can buy laws to make sure any competition is kept at bay.

Re: YouTube-dl's repository has been restored

#512

Post by molticrystal »

There is a little bit more background information from the torrent freak article as it seems they have a comment from the youtube-dl devs: https://torrentfreak.com/github-reinstates-youtube-dl-and-pu...

>Youtube-dl Devs Are Happy

>Sergey, one of the youtube-dl developers, tells us that he is happy with all the support they have received from the EFF, GitHub, as well as the public at large.

>“EFF’s help was invaluable. We’d like to thank EFF and Mitch Stoltz personally for their incredible support and dedication. We’d also like to thank GitHub for standing up for youtube-dl and taking potential legal risks by allowing youtube-dl to keep the rolling cipher code,” he says.

>“We’re also grateful to all the tremendous amount of support and offers received lately (we physically were not able to respond to everyone) and all youtube-dl users,” Sergey adds.

Re: YouTube-dl's repository has been restored

#513

Post by dredmorbius »

Colour me pleasantly surprised.

I've followed this story since it broke. My own (lay) analysis of the RIAA's claims hit HN a few weeks ago:

https://joindiaspora.com/posts/808cf690f8e801381778002590d8e... (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24888234)

The EFF's letter makes strongly similar arguments, admittedly with better legal citations buttressing.

I'd hinted in that post, and commented at HN, as to steps Microsoft could take to establish its credibility before the Free Software community:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25007097

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24876199

Specifically:

Microsoft is a member of the RIAA. It could and should resign.

Microsoft can lobby for further exceptions to §1201 anti-circumvention.

Microsoft can issue a statement formally protesting RIAA's action.

Microsoft could offer an Amicus brief or other statements in favour of youtube-dl developers.

As an old-school Linux user and advocate, I'm used to considering Microsoft the opposition, and my praise is grudging, but given where due. By my reckoning, Microsoft are at least 3 for 4 in meeting my suggestions.

Of the fourth, I suspect its upcoming RIAA renewal discussion will be interesting.

Google, on the other hand, have been conspicuously silent. Chris DiBona, are you listening?

Re: YouTube-dl's repository has been restored

#514

Post by natfriedman »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #408
LeoNatan25 wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So ... they didn't stand up for developers? Promise is not "standing up for".

They reinstated the repo without going through the usual DMCA counter-notice process. Which would require youtube-dl to file a counter-notice, and then to wait some amount of time for the original complainer to respond, before reinstating the content. I think there are few if any major other hosts who would have done this -- although perhaps with the example set here, more will going forward? Honestly, I don't totall…

Our DMCA takedown policy is public and documents our workflow: https://docs.github.com/github/site-policy/dmca-takedown-pol...

It’s also open source: https://github.com/github/site-policy/blob/main/Policies/dmc...

Re: YouTube-dl's repository has been restored

#515

Post by morganvachon »

Karunamon wrote: post #457
zamalek wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> GitHub will establish and donate $1M What is really needed is a "counter-DCMA troll." So far as I understand DCMA, legal fees can be collected for a successful counter-claim. With the rife DCMA fraud these days, someone could make a pretty penny. DCMA has provisions for claim fraud, it simply requires attorneys to creatively weaponize it (which unfortunately doesn't apply to YouTube, because their process is not DC…

As I understand it, DMCA claim fraud requires legally proving bad faith , which is a quite high bar to clear. There are no provisions for negligence (which is what most of these claims probably amount to - you could even make a good argument for depraved indifference, but there are no provisions for that either) or mistakes, it has to be intentionally fraudulent. Even if it was a completely BS takedown, you're left w…

> "Even if it was a completely BS takedown, you're left with proving malice rather than error."

True, but making the same "errors" over and over and over again without regard for the consequences starts to smell fishy after a while, almost like intimidation or a protection racket.

Re: YouTube-dl's repository has been restored

#517

Post by tantalor »

remram wrote: post #399
tantalor wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no need to keep that code in the main yt-dl codebase if it is for special cases. You could imagine a siloed yt-dl plugin called crack-riaa with separate tests, hosting, etc. If yt-dl detects the obfuscation, it could fail with an error message point to the plugin's documentation.

That would only move the problem. That plugin would still need a Git repository, an issue tracker, tests, and an update mechanism. Or are you trying to say you don't care if this specific part of yt-dl gets deleted from the internet by RIAA?

It decouples the thorny part of yt-dl from the mainline and reduces risk of complaints in the future.

I do care if this part gets deleted, that's why I think it should be hosted somewhere more reliable than GitHub. There are other options which aren't as polished, but may be better for hosting risky code like this, including self hosting.

This code needs to be underground.

Re: YouTube-dl's repository has been restored

#518

Post by jacquesm »

contravariant wrote: post #58
jacquesm wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They see themselves as the last bastion of decency in a world full of violation.

This is neither here nor there but Nobel Prize winner Gerard 't Hooft has written an opinion piece on wrong-way drivers in science who seem convinced that everyone else is going the wrong way [1] (it's in Dutch unfortunately, but then the Dutch the word 'spookrider' (lit. 'ghostrider') is a lot cooler than 'wrong-way driver' IMHO). It's a concept that's somehow always stuck with me whenever I hear about people who se…

Spookrijder translates literally into ghostrider, which is a lot nicer than wrong-way driver.

The joke here goes that on the radio there is an all-bands emergency announcement about a ghostrider on A2, the main artery of the country, between Amsterdam and Utrecht.

In one of the vehicles on that road someone mutters 'A ghostrider? Bloody idiots, there's thousands of them!'.

Re: YouTube-dl's repository has been restored

#519

Post by jacquesm »

bigbubba wrote: post #85
codetrotter wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but sometimes it really is everyone else that is wrong. For example, when most people used to think the world was flat.

'Everybody' thinks RMS is wrong. He has the worst case of Cassandra's curse I've ever heard of. But I think it tends to not work like this. Incidentally, the flat earth thing is mostly a myth; literate people have know the earth is round since the ancient Greeks figured it out. Columbus was ridiculed for thinking the Earth was smaller than it really is (his critics were right) and the only reason his trip didn't end…

Doubly lucky because if not for that continent he likely wouldn't have made it all the way, a trip about four times further!

Re: YouTube-dl's repository has been restored

#520

Post by JokerDan »

remram wrote: post #410
Fumtumi wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lets assume, for once, that what they wrote, is what they stand for. I think this is a very very good / exemplary reaction.

Why didn't they start with youtube-dl though? They will defend developers and err on their side "going forward" but no not that one ? Surely they already had the legal manpower when the youtube-dl removal started making waves. The fact that they did nothing for over three weeks and are publishing this blog post right after the issue was fixed by someone else (EFF) makes it hard to believe their "changes".

In large organisations, with lots of tape actually getting the ball rolling on what is proposed with all the sign offs, funds allocated, people/resource allocated for the tasks.... It takes months, not weeks.

They probably published this off the back of a signed off proposal and may start implementing off the back of it early next year.

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