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USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

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Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#511

Post by maccard »

fullstop wrote: post #210
maccard wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another vote for the switch being evil here - just because it works for you doesn't mean it's an urban myth. The OnePlus adapters have historically had issues with the switch - https://www.reddit.com/r/oneplus/comments/5xexiz/fyi_the_one... and the iPhone usb adapters have also had issues. The fact that there's a wiki on "what usb c charger to buy" for your switch suggest many others are having issues too - https://w…

With OnePlus adapters, I would only ever use it for Dash / Warp charging of their phones. It's unique enough that I wouldn't even consider attempting to charge a laptop or a switch with it.

Given the topic of the post, it's worth pointing that out. Even though both are usb c devices (switch and oneplus), they do a really good job of proving the article correct.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#512

Post by dlubarov »

broknbottle wrote: post #461
bluGill wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I purchase a device with a Universal charger port and a universal charger. If the device doesn't work with any other universal charger that is their problem. Likewise if I use their charger on something else and it breaks my other device that is their problem. The purpose of universal is everything works with everything. whoever breaks that is at fault and should pay the price. If Nintendo has used some other por…

Nintendo clearly states on Switch specs page that the Switch dock has a "AC adapter port". Just because it uses a connector that physically looks like USB Type-C does not mean it's actually a USB type C port.

While they don't explicitly claim USB-C compatibility, creating a USB-C shaped port seems like a pretty clear representation that the dock is USB-C compatible.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#513

Post by Dylan16807 »

leetcrew wrote: post #184
jedimastert wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this is a problem if you expect things to be like USB2 where you can collect all these random cables and power blocks and use them interchangeably. this wasn't always true with USB2 anyway, with all the out of spec "fast charge" implementations. Silly question time, why would we not expect that?

I mean you can expect whatever you want. what I'm saying is the beautiful past where all USB cables were perfectly interchangeable never existed. in the last generation we had power-only cables, data-only (although this is out of spec, I believe), and various out of spec fast charging implementations. if you pick up a random usb charging block and micro-usb cable, there was never any guarantee that it would transfer…

I've only seen one charging-only cable, and it was a very weird shape. I've never seen a data-only cable. And while proprietary fast-charging exists does that affect the cables?

The cable situation before was pretty good, honestly. And if we could just mark the speed rating on USB-C cables it would solve almost all the problems. Maybe another symbol for the ones that can do >60 watts but even that is quite niche in comparison.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#514

Post by catblast »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #494
floatingatoll wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It matters if it short circuits, yes. (Electricians, I hope I got this right enough to convey the 'why'; I know it won't be perfect.) The outlet plugs specify the circuit breaker limit. Most consumer electronics in the US use a 15amp plug, which can be plugged into a 15amp outlet or a 20amp outlet — but no higher, due to physical incompatibilities in the outlet design. The electronics that use the 15amp or 20amp plug…

Any device that becomes significantly more dangerous when the breaker trips at 25 instead of 20 amps is relying on way too thin of a safety margin and I would consider it a lurking hazard on any circuit.

That is not how safety margins work. Safety margins are meant to give a buffer for unforeseen circumstances, they are not a ticket to just cheat. With this logic... why stop at a 25A breaker (30 in the US)? Why not just plug a 20A device into a 100A breaker, or no breaker at all?

No safety margin can account for purposeful circumvention, which is what connecting a 15/20A outlet to a 30A circuit is.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#515

Post by vr46 »

paulmd wrote: post #475
vr46 wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, and then when you check the specs, it says USB-C! https://www.nintendo.com/switch/tech-specs/ I was not pleased with it being an outside warranty issue, but I paid up just to get the thing fixed and back.

File a small-claims court suit, they probably won't even bother showing up and will just pay it.

Fair point, lot of hassle for fifty quid, though.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#516

Post by avhon1 »

bmurphy1976 wrote: post #478

My Honda Odyssey has Android Auto support. It only works if I plug the USB-C end of the cable into my Pixel 3 in one orientation. If I rotate it 180º the systems can't connect. I have yet to figure out why this is the case, but it's supremely frustrating when a reversible cable is not in fact reversible.

USB-C cables are only required to have the basic USB 2.0 differential pair on one side (the "top") of the connector. The mirror pair of pins in the connector are not connected to anything.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:USB_Type-C_plug_pino... (Note the empty pair of pins on the bottom-center, right below "D-" and "D+".)

USB-C receptacles have the two locations this pair could end up in cross-wired, so that an electrical connection is made whether the cable is plugged in with the data pair on the top side or on the bottom.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:USB_Type-C_Receptacl... (Note how "D-" and "D+" are mirrored top-center and bottom-center.)

This is more complicated than previous versions of USB, where there was exactly one pin that could be connected to D+ and one that could be connected to D-. If a manufacturer designed a USB-C device like this, with only one of two possible data pairs connected, then the cable will only work when plugged in "data-conductor side up". When plugged in "data-conductor side down", the D+ and D- conductors will be in unconnected pins in the receptable, and the unconnected pins in the cable will be in the receptacle's connected pins.

If this is actually what happened in your car, and you're the adventurous sort, you could possibly fix this by soldering two "bodge wires" to your minivan's USB port, one shorting the two D+ pins together, and the other shorting the two D- pins together.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#517

Post by Dylan16807 »

rattray wrote: post #411
rubatuga wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't have a cable that transmits video and does not charge. Even when using USB-C for video, e.g. displayport, it negotiates through a USB 2.0 connection which guarantees 5V @ 500mA.

Sorry, by "charge" I mean, charge my laptop at full speed. The limiting factor to my charge speed should not be a cable that has the same designation as another cable which is not a limiting factor.

Yeah, it's annoying if you want a number of watts that's specifically between 60 and 100. The vast majority of cables are limited to 60. But that's a far cry from being unable to charge things!

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#518

Post by yoz-y »

curryst wrote: post #331
chrisseaton wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> USB 3 connectors and ports were pretty much always blue. I’ve never seen a blue connector and ports in most laptops are just body coloured like in MacBooks.

It's rather ubiquitous, I'm surprised you haven't seen them. The plastic bits in the USB 3 ports in my motherboard, case, keyboard, _and_ the USB ports built into my monitor arms are all blue. Lower USBs are black. It's not universal, but it is very common.

Ubiquitous outside of Apple ecosystem only though.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#519

Post by AdrianB1 »

floatingatoll wrote: post #315
dheera wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The chargers that use standard plugs should also be made to support the standard or they should be held legally responsible. In this particular case I think even well-known name brand chargers which follow standards (Apple, Anker) are breaking the Nintendo, and that's unacceptable.

Nintendo’s Switch plug happens to physically and electrically seem to accept USB-C charger connectors, but it’s not a USB-C plug, and the Switch should not be considered compatible just because it uses a similar plug. Nintendo should have taken more steps with their charger to restrict the Switch to authorized chargers only, rather than permitting unsupported chargers (such as standard USB-C ones) from being able to…

> the Switch should not be considered compatible just because it uses a similar plug

Imagine you go to a hotel and see an USB A port on the wall and you try to charge your phone, then your phone starts to smoke or simply ignites. You find later that port was not a standard USB A port, but a 220 volt plug for something custom. Should the hotel be responsible for that? I think it should. If it looks like a duck ...

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#520

Post by Dylan16807 »

d1zzy wrote: post #426
coryfklein wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how exactly does one know they have received a "high end" cable or charger? Because it cost enough? Because a website claimed it was "Offishial Ankker CABLE"? I'm with you; as an educated techie I'm confident I can find a setup that works for my devices, but I'm far from the common denominator here. Frankly I'm a little concerned when HN thinks, "Nah this isn't a problem, USB-C is working just fine for me. None o…

> And how exactly does one know they have received a "high end" cable or charger? Because it cost enough? Because a website claimed it was "Offishial Ankker CABLE"? Ensure that whatever peripherals you buy that need high speed connectivity _come_ with the USB-C cables they need. Since the cable is part of the product the manufacturer will ensure they will bundle the cheapest cable that still works for that product as…

> Alternatively, buy a cable that advertises support for the highest bitrate of all those transmission types, essentially buy a cable that advertises Thunderbolt3 support

God, I wish.

But half the thunderbolt cables don't support USB!

Crossing my fingers for that godawful decision to be fixed with USB4.

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