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Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

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Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean subsidized in the sense of student loans backed by the government?

No. The link I was replying to was referring to State Universities. They are owned and partially financed by the government.

Sure. But what I'm wondering is what subsidies you're referring to. Are you talking about grants and loans that students get, or maybe federal grant money for research?

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#512
post #484
post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are a lot of pointless liberal arts classes for a STEM degree in the US. I understand, this was my outlook when I left school too, but I changed my mind about that. It took me maybe 5 years of work experience before I realized that no matter how "technically" smart I was, my technical skills were worth shit if I couldn't communicate better with my teammates. My writing was poor, I couldn't explain myself conc…

I think he means there are classes that really are pointless. They're basically adult babysitting. I found quite a few interesting history/culture/etc classes and enrolled in them. They had no prerequisites, but offered engaging material. A week in I notice... these classes don't fulfill my general education requirements--only the most fundamental, non-challenging classes do. So I switch from classes with 15-20 stude…

Yep, this is what I was getting at. Also, the test facts are part of a study guide literally telling you what is on the test and people still fail.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've looked at many programs and most schools claim that they want students to be "well rounded". I think that is pretty common and a scam, but that's just my opinion. We may have a difference of opinions here, but six classes that I have no actual need for IS a lot to me. I still had to show up for those classes, listen to the instructors, do homework, buy stupid textbooks, and briefly study for the tests even thoug…

Curious what university you attended. From my experience the engineering liberal arts courses were still engineering focused. E.g. English was about writing ieee formatted papers. I had an engineering ethics course where we discussed sensitive issues such as a medical radiology device which accidentally delivered 10x the dose due to sticky keyboard keys.

IEEE format would've been nice. Engineering ethics is required for ABET accreditation in the US, so we all probably had something similar.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#514
post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true. There are a lot of pointless liberal arts classes for a STEM degree in the US. For example, my engineering degree required 3 English classes, psychology, fine arts, and sociology. These were all incredibly easy and I found the course material was what I was used to as a freshman in highschool (no I'm not exaggerating). So those classes weren't even remedial, but felt like a joke. Please note that I'm no…

> There are a lot of pointless liberal arts classes for a STEM degree in the US. I understand, this was my outlook when I left school too, but I changed my mind about that. It took me maybe 5 years of work experience before I realized that no matter how "technically" smart I was, my technical skills were worth shit if I couldn't communicate better with my teammates. My writing was poor, I couldn't explain myself conc…

I've been out of school for a decade now and would agree that communication is vital. However, that isn't learned via English Literature, psychology, sociology, art history...etc. Public speaking, writing descriptive emails and so on require practice, literacy, and putting yourself in someone else's shoes. Something like Toastmasters in class form would've been nice.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#515
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Private Engineering-focused college in the Northeast. All-in annual cost was listed at $24k for tuition, room, board, fees, etc.

Sounds like WPI. I wouldn't want to attend at current tuition rates.

Good guess! One has to look at the actual cost of anywhere you go, which will take into account any financial aid. Regardless, that does become part of figuring out if you're getting your money's worth out of your education.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#516
post #47
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of like what's been happening with housing in the places with jobs. It's too bad there isn't some sort of system where we could all have a voice to regulate these sort of things. Kind of like the US had before the Managementism replaced Capitalism and Corprotocrocy replaced deomocracy.

What would you describe as the key differences between Managementism and Capitalism?

simple, capitalism is where things are run by owners of capital. Managementism is where the managers of companies run things because ownership has been diluted and ignored.

This idea is from a book by Frederick Lewis Allen. "The Big Change", published 1952. http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks05/0500881h.html

" With potential opposition melting away through the sales exit, the management is very much in the saddle--and in most of these larger companies it is virtually self-perpetuating. How else could things be run in, let us say, the American Telephone Company, which has over a million shareholders, no one of whom owns more than one-tenth of one per cent of the stock?

Looking at this segment of American business, we would almost find it appropriate to call our present economic system "managementism" rather than "capitalism." "

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US states generally have not placed their capitals in their population centers. I'm told some of it is a fear of big city corruption might have on democracy (not without reason, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_machine#In_the_Unite... ). The logic seemed to play out in land grant unis as well, but looking at some history articles about my alma mater, it seems more complicated than "big city bad" -- the big…

I made the mistake of commuting from home my first year in university (UW, i graduated high school in the area), it is really not that great to “commute” and pure commuter schools (where most students commute to from home) offer a different experience from other universities. One point of university is to make it on your own. If your daddy is rich, this is in the dorms, if not, you rent a basement room nearby and bik…

I went to SUNY Buffalo and while it isn't purely commuter, there was a significant commuter population. I lived with my parents nearby and had an 8-9 minute commute. If I had an 8am lecture (before the majority of commuters were there for the day), I could typically leave the house at 7:49am and still usually get to my seat as the professor began the lecture around 8:01am.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Universities in Europe are generally high quality and low cost. It does have it's problems but it is not one or the other. You do not need a degree 30 years ago to do lots of jobs that now require one. Higher education for a lot of organizations is just an easy way to cut the application stack down

> You do not need a degree 30 years ago to do lots of jobs that now require one This is part of the problem. Stop demanding a formal degree for jobs, allow anyone who can do the job to do it, and much/some of these problems will go away.

Sure - as soon as we allow IQ and other such metrics to be valid for job-applications (I would love to just sort-by-IQ when filtering job and team applications). There most certainly is an over-abundance of individuals willing to work for the available spots, and we're artificially handicapping the methods by which the pool can be pruned. That's why we have leet-code type quizzes in tech, they're essentially proxies for memorization, IQ and determination. Consequently, degrees are a secondary proxy for the above 3 criteria, so no wonder employers have been relying on it.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The link I was replying to was referring to State Universities. They are owned and partially financed by the government.

Sure. But what I'm wondering is what subsidies you're referring to. Are you talking about grants and loans that students get, or maybe federal grant money for research?

These organizations literally directly receive money from the government. Students grants are a factor too, but they are owned and financed in large part by the State. That's called a subsidy. They are losing money, that the taxpayer shoulders.

Re: Why has college gotten so expensive in the last 30 years? A blank check in 1993

#520
post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> University is all about learning outside of the normal narrow viewpoint PRECISELY! Watch this then and tell me I am wrong: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKkNIOkGtnQ We are funding and paying for a "narrow narrow viewpoint" to our detriment. This is isn't what universities are for. I am 100% in agreement with you in that regard. Watch the interview and think about what he is saying.

This is a 1.5 hour video, you might want to summarize a bit...

Being informed requires effort and some dedication. A bullet-point summary can't possibly capture what one can learn by taking the time to listen to a careful intellectual exchange with nuance and detail that escapes a summary.

That said, the conversation, among other things, explores the mechanisms through which academia tends to self-radicalize (note I am not specifying a direction) as well as some of the consequences of such radicalization.

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