Spotify CEO: musicians can no longer release music only “once every 3-4 years” • Hacker News Board

Re: Spotify CEO: musicians can no longer release music only “once every 3-4 years”

#511

Post by a1369209993 » Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 9:33 PM UTC

Apocryphon wrote: post #412

a1369209993 wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the same plenitude is available in almost all aspects of our lives. To be fair, there's orders of magnitude less plenitude in certain necessities like food and housing - still more than enough over all, but not by so large a margin that you don't get local shortfalls (especially in housing).

It's there, it's just not evenly distributed- or evenly zoned. As a species, we can probably produce enough to cover everyone's basic needs if we wanted to.

> > still more than enough over all

Re: Spotify CEO: musicians can no longer release music only “once every 3-4 years”

#512

Post by rnd0 » Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 9:33 PM UTC

hunter2_ wrote: post #371

commandlinefan wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wish more people, especially tech CEOs Well, you can't really blame the tech CEO here... Spotify charges people what they're willing to pay to listen to music. I think it's a minor miracle that they've worked out a way to get people to pay anything for music considering how easy music piracy has been since the internet came along. (Not taking a moral stance, just stating a fact).

Speaking as another sound engineer and software engineer: I believe the effort and risks involved with piracy are -- on average in well-off places -- simply "worth it" compared to owning physical media and "not worth it" compared to paid streaming subscriptions. It's not just about dollars, but the value proposition of the total experience. The average pirate doesn't streamline their rig with all sorts of automation…

The arbitary nature of contracts also keeps piracy relevant for people who get exasperated at the "now you hear it, now you don't" problem with playlists.

If you pirate something and make a playlist, it won't be full of holes after the next round of contract negotiations. With Spotify -it very well might.

Re: Spotify CEO: musicians can no longer release music only “once every 3-4 years”

#513

Post by bmitc » Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 9:35 PM UTC

meheleventyone wrote: post #493

bmitc wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Games certainly can be art! But I don't see how that conflicts with what I said or serves as a counterexample. Games are not just software products. They are the culmination of work by artists, designers, writers, and engineers. The end product is often an artistic piece, and a rather interesting one. Games being art doesn't suddenly mean software products are art. The software itself helps drive the art but is not t…

Videogames are software products though so are a prime example of software products that are art. To quote your own recent definition of software: "I have always viewed hard, firm, and soft as a description of the ware's malleability. Hardware is not easily changed or updateable, if at all. Firmware is typically code deployed to stay in hardware like an EEPROM, flash, or FPGA, where it can be changed but not necessar…

> Videogames are software products though so are a prime example of software products that are art.

Did you think about or read what I described? Because I specifically addressed how I think video games being art does not make software products and code art. You aren't elaborating and then just restating an opinion I've already discussed.

If video games being art means that software products and/or code is art, then you need to consider that the material (paint, metal, etc.) used in paintings and sculptures is art as well and all the other repercussions of such a conclusion. No one would argue that. The paint in paintings is part of the medium and brushes and other such things are part of the tools of the process. In the case of video games, the software is a kind of both tool and medium of how that art is created and experienced. No one is saying software can't be a medium for art, but it isn't the art itself. And again, like I've already said, I don't think video games can simply be defined as software products. Other things called software products, like mobile apps, also have artists and designers, but there the situation is even more removed from art because the app is not expressing anything but is rather solving a problem, providing a service, or giving functionality.

> To quote your own recent definition of software

That quote has nothing to do with this discussion, so I'm not really sure why you're pulling it here. It was from a completely different post, and a non-native English speaker had remarked about how they had thought that the firm in firmware meant something else. I wasn't defining software but rather discussing how hard, firm, and soft in hardware, firmware, and software could be thought of.

> Not to mention the other examples you studiously avoided.

I didn't avoid anything. I didn't feel I had anything to say that adds to the discussion without repeating what I already said. Yes, they're examples. And?

Re: Spotify CEO: musicians can no longer release music only “once every 3-4 years”

#514

Post by meheleventyone » Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 9:37 PM UTC

bmitc wrote: post #513

meheleventyone wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Videogames are software products though so are a prime example of software products that are art. To quote your own recent definition of software: "I have always viewed hard, firm, and soft as a description of the ware's malleability. Hardware is not easily changed or updateable, if at all. Firmware is typically code deployed to stay in hardware like an EEPROM, flash, or FPGA, where it can be changed but not necessar…

> Videogames are software products though so are a prime example of software products that are art. Did you think about or read what I described? Because I specifically addressed how I think video games being art does not make software products and code art. You aren't elaborating and then just restating an opinion I've already discussed. If video games being art means that software products and/or code is art, then…

Videogames are software products and are art. So my initial point that some software products are art was correct. Yay!

Re: Spotify CEO: musicians can no longer release music only “once every 3-4 years”

#515

Post by olivejun » Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 9:41 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #504

philmcc wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not touching the whole heft of the argument, I would like to point out that the original poster didn't compare the difficulty of writing a hit song to a "hit app", he compared a creating a hit song with creating working software. I can co-sign on this part of his premise. I worked for a music producer who has a number of #1 hits (Beyonce, Fergie, John Legend etc). He wrote >1 songs per day almost every day for over a…

But working software doesn't mean commercially successful software. It just means it runs and does something. "Working software" would be comparable to "listenable music". I'm sure every song that producer wrote daily was listenable . But even if you mean "working software" as something that goes up on the app charts, top 100 in a popular category? I mean, then no -- I could easily see a developer spend an entire yea…

The average income indifference between artists and software developers, and how many of those who make up those communities are able to find any sense of financial stability, are vastly different, so even under your logic that a “hit” is a “hit” no matter the industry, is still really misinformed and I’m sure we are all out here just doing what we are doing for the “love of it”.

Speaking as a producer and developer, they are not the same things in any way and I love doing what I do deeply, thank you very much.

Re: Spotify CEO: musicians can no longer release music only “once every 3-4 years”

#516

Post by hootbootscoot » Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 9:42 PM UTC

Spotify pays independent artists (that aren't part of large negotiated artist pools from seriously major labels) poorly.

Indie artists are sinking more into getting their songs promoted on playlists than they gain in streaming revenue in return. It's literally "pay to be played"

(Remember "Pay to Play" in Sunset Strip clubs in the 80's? You would literally front the money for renting the club on a Tuesday or Thursday and then sell tickets and hope to pay off your "concert" (Friday/Saturday had music the club actually booked & paid, hence their "reputation" was solid)

Anyway, I severely resent the massive influence these relatively new corporate overlords have had in reducing the value of music significantly.

BANDCAMP is one suggested remedy, as they take their (relatively small, I think its' around 10%?) cut from your sales and allow you to have your bands page and sub-domain "yourband.bandcamp.com" etc... in other words: they treat you respectfully as humans should treat other humans.

This race to the bottom can only end in more Aututuned Pop, lol...

Re: Spotify CEO: musicians can no longer release music only “once every 3-4 years”

#517

Post by eanzenberg » Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 9:43 PM UTC

hunter2_ wrote: post #371

commandlinefan wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wish more people, especially tech CEOs Well, you can't really blame the tech CEO here... Spotify charges people what they're willing to pay to listen to music. I think it's a minor miracle that they've worked out a way to get people to pay anything for music considering how easy music piracy has been since the internet came along. (Not taking a moral stance, just stating a fact).

Speaking as another sound engineer and software engineer: I believe the effort and risks involved with piracy are -- on average in well-off places -- simply "worth it" compared to owning physical media and "not worth it" compared to paid streaming subscriptions. It's not just about dollars, but the value proposition of the total experience. The average pirate doesn't streamline their rig with all sorts of automation…

I don’t want to own physical media of anything, anymore. Just the thought of it feels constraining to my and other people’s lifestyles.

Re: Spotify CEO: musicians can no longer release music only “once every 3-4 years”

#518

Post by theodric » Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 9:46 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #401

alchemyromcom wrote: post #139

I wish more people, especially tech CEOs, could understand the incredible sacrifice of time, money, and energy it takes to make an album people actually enjoy. Everything you listen to, unless you are willing to listen to raw demos, is a miracle. I've worked both as a sound engineer and and a software developer. It's orders of magnitude easier to make working software than it is to make a hit record. The way tech com…

> It's orders of magnitude easier to make working software than it is to make a hit record. That's apples-to-oranges. Obviously a "hit" anything is hard in any field, by definition. A hit app is just as hard (even harder, probably, since there are a lot less hit apps than hit songs). But producing a single track? Seriously, it's not that hard. Yes, it takes a team of people and a lot of creativity and skill, but I do…

RIP cohesive bodies of work or concept albums in your new publish-or-perish hellworld

Re: Spotify CEO: musicians can no longer release music only “once every 3-4 years”

#519

Post by mdavidn » Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 9:47 PM UTC

gwd wrote: post #81

quacked wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The music isn’t your product, the music is your marketing. The shows, the merch, your influence - that’s your product. Man, that's depressing.

>> The music isn’t your product, the music is your marketing. The shows, the merch, your influence - that’s your product. > Man, that's depressing. If the CEO of an open-source company said, "Software isn't our product, software is our marketing", would you feel the same way?

But some open source software is marketing, is it not? The big open source frameworks released by tech companies come to mind. These projects shape the industry and advance the company's recruitment goals. Bootstrap. React. TensorFlow. Kubernetes. WebKit.

Re: Spotify CEO: musicians can no longer release music only “once every 3-4 years”

#520

Post by jp57 » Fri, Jul 31, 2020, 9:48 PM UTC

larrik wrote: post #366

jp57 wrote: post #256

I'm not sure why this is controversial. In the vinyl era, when a single LP was about 40 minutes long, it was pretty normal for artists to release roughly an album a year. (e.g. Led Zeppelin's eight studio albums were released over a span of 10.5 years, but one was a double album and they took a long break when Robert Plant's son died. The first 7 albums were released over 7 years). It seems like it was only when albu…

I honestly don't think the length of the albums matter. As bands get more successful, they tour more, and that eats up all of their time. Lots of bands will tour for 2 full years after an album release, and only then start to work on another. Back in the 70's, bands just didn't casually tour the world like now.

Bands toured like crazy in the 70's. Led Zeppelin II was written and recorded on the road. (technically that was the 60s, tho)

I think you have the causality backwards. Because CDs were a longer format, they enabled bands to take longer tours before having to release another album.