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Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

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Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#511

Post by apta »

ceejayoz wrote: post #243
apta wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen stores (e.g. electronic stores) offer reduced prices when paying in cash vs. credit card. Is this law only in the US?

Reduced prices for cash used to be against the Visa/MC merchant terms. They lost a lawsuit over it, but it's fairly ingrained by now. You'll see cash discounts at some gas stations, and the occasional small coffee shop or takeout place will have a $10 minimum, but otherwise it's gonna be the same price most places.

Seems like an opportunity to raise awareness for this information then.

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#512

Post by lotsofpulp »

blacklion wrote: post #509
lotsofpulp wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on your description, you have one debit card and one credit card. If it says debit on the front of the card, it is debit. I’ve never seen this work in person, but some people claim their debit card worked as a credit card and whatnot. Even if that is true, all merchant systems I’ve worked with allow the merchant/cardholder to select debit or restrict transactions to only debit.

Both cards don't have words "debit" neither "credit" on them. I need to be really careful to use right one, as they are virtually indistinguishable. Yes, from my point if view one is debit and one is credit, but I wonder is it possible to know what does payment system think about them? I dream about bank for geeks, where all technical information about each transaction could be seen in web interface :-)

That's interesting. I've never seen a debit card not say debit on it somewhere.

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#513

Post by sdenton4 »

alt_f4 wrote: post #445
sdenton4 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not optional, though. I still have to pay the higher transaction costs even without a credit card, because the credit card companies require that vendors have the same prices for card or cash, resulting in higher prices for everyone.

Will you go to jail or pay a fine if you don't use a credit card? No? Then it's nothing like taxation and it is optional.

Think of sales tax. You have the option of paying it or not buying things; it's not optional.

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#514

Post by alt_f4 »

omosubi wrote: post #508
komali2 wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get the impression you don't think much of me. That's ok, but why did you feel the need to tell me?

alt_f4 is a troll. I don't think they understand what we're arguing about lol

your mum is a troll

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#515

Post by alt_f4 »

sdenton4 wrote: post #513
alt_f4 wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will you go to jail or pay a fine if you don't use a credit card? No? Then it's nothing like taxation and it is optional.

Think of sales tax. You have the option of paying it or not buying things; it's not optional.

are you retarded? you can literally can pay with cash, or you know, a DEBIT card.

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#516

Post by sdenton4 »

alt_f4 wrote: post #515
sdenton4 wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think of sales tax. You have the option of paying it or not buying things; it's not optional.

are you retarded? you can literally can pay with cash, or you know, a DEBIT card.

Work on your reading comprehension...

The card companies charge merchants for transactions. The merchants raise their prices to cover those transaction costs: For a very long time (and still, in a few places) it was against the card company's terms of service to have a card usage surcharge. A very few places now have 'cash discounts' or don't accept cards at all, but these are by far the exception. As a result, /everyone/ ends up paying for credit card rewards, even those who don't use credit cards.

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#517

Post by Nursie »

clairity wrote: post #254
chongli wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who pay in cash are subsidizing the store’s costs to handle cash. Paying employees to count the cash (usually after closing), putting it in the safe, distributing the cash to cash registers, refilling when they run out of change, paying for the security service (Brinks etc) to deliver cash to/from the bank, insurance against robbery... Cash is not free for a store to handle. Stores pay transaction fees on cred…

> "Cash is not free for a store to handle." that's like saying opening the doors everyday to customers is not free. it's true, but misses the point. handling cash, like paying for utilities, is a fundamental cost of doing business, and so it should be, because the right to anonymity and privacy is woven into cash. not so much with electronic transactions, which are optional, alternative costs.

No, it's not a fundamental cost of doing business, and many businesses no longer so that.

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#518

Post by Nursie »

jobigoud wrote: post #364
e9 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you can't rent a car without credit card, they won't accept debit card or even debit VISA/MASTERCARD, it has to be full on credit card

I don't know anyone personally that owns a "credit" card. Virtually nobody uses them here in France and I think in the rest of Europe, it's always debit card. Never had an issue with renting cars.

>Virtually nobody uses them here in France and I think in the rest of Europe,

Definitely not the case here in the UK, credit cards are very common.

Re: Forget Google, time to end the Visa-MasterCard duopoly

#520

Post by perl4ever »

philwelch wrote: post #375
perl4ever wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a way around the truth in lending laws,* to make interest rates appear lower than they are. Instead of 2% cash back for some, they could just add 20 percentage points or so to the interest rates of everyone else. If you think this is unfair, you're really just saying that interest rates are applied unfairly. But it doesn't sound like that's your actual thought process. Is everyone who pays higher rates subsidizi…

That’s not really how credit cards work though. You only ever pay credit card interest if you carry a balance from month to month. Cash back doesn’t just reduce your effective interest rate; your effective interest rate can already be zero simply by virtue of paying the full balance due every month. And the credit system does literally nothing to discourage this behavior; in fact, the credit scoring algorithms incent…

It's just a shell game. You think it's really different, but to the corporate bean counters the money is fungible.

You pay 2% in transaction fees, you may or may not get almost all of it back as "cash back".

In a world without significant transaction fees, we wouldn't have the grace period either, and the people who get the most cash back would pay lower rates and others higher.

The reason the powers that be like the current system and would lobby against a crackdown on fees is because it feels like they're giving you something with the grace period, and giving you something if you get cash back.

But it's just a play on psychology. If there's an injustice, I think it has to boil down to evaluating credit risk incorrectly.

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