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No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

blog.interviewing.io

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Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#511

Post by clarry »

planetzero wrote: post #399
nkingsy wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a tried and true practice in dating, and it translates well to hiring, which is basically the same thing. Most people, ESPECIALLY people who ask you for feedback, do not want feedback. They want to get in a fight with you. Edit: I don't remember ghosting anyone personally in either setting, but it's happened to me plenty. Getting upset about it just means you're new to the experience.

A couple of years ago, I was ghosted by a company after being interviewed. A few weeks later, I realized that the guy that interviewed me was just hired as a consultant by the company, and convinced the boss to hire him instead of me for my job. How did I find all of this out? Over A month later, they called me back. This was after I had been strung along by the business owner and the guy that interviewed me for over…

But there's a massive shortage of talent. Of course employers would ghost you. They can just hire the next consultant in queue.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#512

Post by josephg »

loriverkutya wrote: post #447
nkingsy wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also have data on this. I previously worked for a marketplace company that had to vet freelance writers. The application process was partially automated, with multiple human reviewers that provided detailed scoring on the applicant’s performance. Initially, we provided a score breakdown to applicants, but we turned this off within a few weeks after a cascade of hostility.

The difference is in the first case the feedback was constructive?

Probably. Our feedback doesn't contain question-by-question breakdowns or numerical scoring. Instead we try to make it actionable, practical and specific. It looks roughly like this:

"Based on our interview we think you would really benefit from studying up on data structures and algorithms. If you want to study this stuff on your own, many people find (link) and (link) useful. But there's also (link) or (link) books available on amazon that we've had people recommend."

Or: "We were impressed by your spoken communication skills, but sometimes you seemed to struggle to remember specific technical terms for some of the concepts and areas we discussed...."

The feedback emails themselves are assembled from a mix of interviewer notes and reused snippets for comments we give frequently. This sort of stuff has been very time consuming for us to prepare. At the volume of candidates we interact with, we think its definitely worth it. But its possible that no feedback is better than bad feedback, and most organizations might not have the time to write good feedback to candidates.

But I can say with confidence that almost everyone really appreciates the feedback we send. While its easy for senior people to find work at the moment, there's lots of junior people out there sending dozens of resumes for every call back. Receiving rejection after rejection from companies (or worse, being ghosted) without even being told what you're doing wrong is a really awful experience.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#513

Post by cultofmetatron »

_cairn wrote: post #120

So many comments in the vein of "who has time to waste on candidates we aren't going to make an offer to?" - You are damaging your companies brand thinking this way. You want people who you reject to say to themselves "I can't wait to study up and interview here again, they said no, but I still want to work here!"

This is so true! The best interview I ever had was at Netflix. They sent a takehome and we actually discussed it in the interview. I got a ton of useful feedback on my code which made me feel I was getting something worthwhile for my time. In the end, I didn't get the offer but was told why (not enough experience building UI's which were a large part of the position) but I was stoked as it was advice I could choose to work on or not.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#514

Post by Zarel »

Afton wrote: post #7

I got verbal feedback exactly one time (at Microsoft) during my attempt to land a post-1-year of university internship. I had solved the algorithm in a few minutes, but when trying to code it up, I struggled a fair amount before figuring it out. The feedback I got was "You seem like a smart person, who hasn't done very much coding. That makes you a bad risk. Go practice programming and come back next year". It was in…

Oddly, I had the exact opposite experience interviewing at Microsoft.

I blazed through all the questions the manager asked, and the manager told me I was the most talented person he'd ever interviewed and would definitely get the job, and then I didn't get the job, and got no further feedback. It was the most confusing interview process I'd ever been in.

I sent him to ask him if there was some sort of mistake, and he didn't even reply directly, just sent me back a message through the recruiter saying no, it wasn't a mistake.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#515

Post by odiroot »

5cott0 wrote: post #338
vector_spaces wrote: post #246

I'm so disappointed to read comments on this thread to the effect of "There's nothing in it for the company but risk". I once put in about 8 hours on a take home project at a company (well known in these parts) that I had tremendous respect for, only to get an email back with "sorry, not up to par. We need someone with more experience". I asked them for a couple quick points on what I could have done better. I had ze…

Interview homework is in many cases more of a disrespectful waste of candidates time than fresh grad whiteboard hazing rituals.

It is a modern equivalent of an unpaid internship.

I immediately discard such companies (if they don't budge). They have shown, from the get go, they're not respecting their engineers. Why would you work for such a company? You're never going to be treated as an equal there.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#516

Post by retromario »

iagooar wrote: post #395
vector_spaces wrote: post #246

I'm so disappointed to read comments on this thread to the effect of "There's nothing in it for the company but risk". I once put in about 8 hours on a take home project at a company (well known in these parts) that I had tremendous respect for, only to get an email back with "sorry, not up to par. We need someone with more experience". I asked them for a couple quick points on what I could have done better. I had ze…

In Germany every single lawyer or HR responsible would tell you not to send any reason at all, just a generic response. This has to do with how law is structured here: giving feedback gives an attack surface to candidates that could sue you for the feedback you gave (because they do not agree with it). So this is it, companies do not do this because they're evil, they do this because nobody wants legal consequences.

The way a friend of mine in Germany does it is to send a polite rejection by mail with an offer to discuss details over the phone. Leaves less actionable attack surface while still trying to give constructive feedback.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#517

Post by 2rsf »

madamelic wrote: post #502
2rsf wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How long was the trial ? can you do it while being employed elsewhere? it could be forbidden by contract to be employed in two places, and you could simply don't have the time for a full time, short, project

Current place does trials. Typically two weeks long and you get paid the same amount as if you worked there. And yep, many people do have other jobs. Some take vacation time and others do nights + weekends.

I admit that a short trial is the best way to choose a match both for employees and employers, BUT I don't see it working for most people.

I have a family and personal life, I am not going to try out a few employers until I get the right one.

My employment contract also forbids working in other businesses at the same time, vacation or not.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#518

Post by collyw »

vector_spaces wrote: post #246

I'm so disappointed to read comments on this thread to the effect of "There's nothing in it for the company but risk". I once put in about 8 hours on a take home project at a company (well known in these parts) that I had tremendous respect for, only to get an email back with "sorry, not up to par. We need someone with more experience". I asked them for a couple quick points on what I could have done better. I had ze…

Well small as it is, you can leave a shitty review on Glassdoor.

Why are you against naming and shaming the company?

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#519

Post by bonzini »

jodrellblank wrote: post #415
Iv wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every word you speak, especially to the youth, is a seed. Handle them like they were going to land on fertile ground.

Is this, "grind them up so they won't be competing with you for sunlight" or "don't shit on them, it will only help them grow stronger"?

Technically, shit helps seeds grow stronger.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#520

Post by shkkmo »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #507
jakobegger wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The lawyers are correctly suggesting how to minimise legal risk, it's up to HR and the company if they feel like the risk is worth it. A good lawyer should also tell you how big the risk is that you are avoiding, otherwise their advise is worthless.

Lawyers at companies have much bigger fish to fry like constantly reviewing sales and customer contracts in the high six figure ballpark not reviewing the risk of the feedback for every rejected candidate. For the latter their answer is always clear cut, "don't give any meaningful feedback to avoid ANY AND ALL risk of litigation, period". Their job is to keep the company safe from any litigation risk, no matter how s…

Their job should be to help manage the litigation risks so that the companies can assume those risks that provide sufficiently high returns.
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