Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

tesla.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

511–520 of 658 posts

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#511

Post by jfim »

eru wrote: post #500
jfim wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not unusual for computer vision (or any kind of sensor really), that kind of data is normally filtered and smoothed after that, and merged with previous frames or other sensors. What would be worrying is the model misclassifying an object, not detecting it at all, or having the bounding box consistently off.

> That's not unusual for computer vision (or any kind of sensor really), [...] Including human vision. The raw sensory data is pretty messy, and with some ingenious experiments some researchers can get a glimpse of exactly how messy.

Oh definitely. The selective attention test [0] really shows how humans can perceive certain things in a way that's different from how computers perceive them.

The research on GANs also shows how computers can be fooled by things that wouldn't confuse humans.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJG698U2Mvo

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#512

Post by rootusrootus »

trca wrote: post #437
rootusrootus wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it have the object permanence abilities of a six month old baby?

In the "FSD Preview" update that came out around Christmas time, the car now shows a bunch of symbols on the road, and signs (aka stop signs) that it recognizes. They don't flicker at all, even while you're driving and a large truck obscures the car's vision of the sign / stoplight. So they likely have started to enable some form of temporal memory into the system so that it remembers what it has observed in the envi…

That hasn't been my experience. The visualization only ever shows what I can see with my own eyes, and the cameras are in a very similar position. I've definitely watched traffic signals come and go, all while not moving an inch.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#513

Post by stoops »

torpfactory wrote: post #498
FreedomToCreate wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is from 6 months ago so pretty up to date. Drive with Nvidia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W9q5SjaJTc

Nvidia is in an interesting spot - trying to create chips and toolkits for self driving without anyone actually having created the full self driving solution yet. How do you know that if you buy the new AGX chip from them you'll actually end up with a product someone will buy? Some of the other tier one suppliers (I'm looking at you, Continental) are kind of in the same boat.

If you're not doing your own chip design and fab, there's really no one else in town to buy from. AMD, Intel have fallen well short in GPUs. TPUs from Google/Amazon are a more likely threat long-term.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#514

Post by spookthesunset »

HeWhoLurksLate wrote: post #492
spookthesunset wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They exist now as what amounts to fancy amusement park rides. Wake me up when I can get sloppy drunk and catch one home. Only I was drunk and didn’t provide the exactly correct drop off address and need to somehow communicate to the robo-Uber where exactly it should drop me off... (how will I do that, by the way? talk to it? What if it doesn’t understand my accent?) Also, I’m at a wedding and the pickup is in a grass…

> Until you can meet my use case, a common one for an Uber driver, self driving cars are empty hype. For you . The semi-autonomy we have now- not "this vehicle will get me from point A to point B without need for intervention- but "this vehicle can take out some amount of the area between points A and B" is incredibly useful. I don't know how hard it is for you to keep going straight while fumbling about with a hambu…

Nice for you until the “self driving” car gets into an accident and kills the other driver. You don’t get 50% attention with driving. It’s either 100% or 0%. Anything other than that will put everybody else on the road at risk.

If you are driving around in your Tesla using its adaptive cruise control and not paying attention to your driving... I can only hope the accident you will eventually cause hurts nobody but yourself.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#515

Post by adrr »

donkeyd wrote: post #237
pcurve wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"All signs point to driving requiring an understanding of what's going on around you, which this generation of ML does not provide." That may be very true, but are most of us fully present in the act of driving ? Where the ML is deficient we can make up for it by making the infrastructure more robust.

> making the infrastructure more robust Can't make human behaviour inside that infrastructure more robust though. So we'd need to completely split human and autonomous traffic. That'll be about as big a challenge as creating the autonomous cars in the first place. My guess is at least 15 years before we'll see any large scale adoption of autonomous vehicles. And that's for countries like the Netherlands which are alr…

Waymo ordered 60,000 mini vans and 20k suvs. They are running full self driving in Arizona without safety drivers. Self driving is already here. Waymo just started petitioning California for the ability to start charging. I bet we see sf go live with Waymo taxis at the start of 2021.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#516

Post by brokenmachine »

spookthesunset wrote: post #381
jodrellblank wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way you suggest the future of automotive transport rests on a fast food chain drive through suggests a kind of astroturfing social media advert. If burgers were that important, the burger company would partner with the self driving car company and find a way. None of those things are physically complex - the car will be able to see or lidar if a space is big enough for it to park in, pulling over to pick up a fri…

> None of those things are physically complex I don't care about how physically complex something is. You didn't tell me how I'd tell the self driving car which spot to park in or which person on the corner is my friend. If you think this detail is minor, trivial or doesn't matter.... you are sadly mistaken. > If burgers were that important, the burger company would partner with the self driving car company and find…

That's the easiest problem to solve... if the car is capable of driving itself then you have both hands free to operate your phone or a touchscreen.

You can enter the location to stop at, and in this imaginary world where the car is capable of driving safely, then it should also be able to find the nearest safe location to stop at.

The actual part where the car is able to drive itself is clearly nothing but unfounded hype though.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#517

Post by tim333 »

spookthesunset wrote: post #148
axguscbklp wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I thought fully autonomous driving was meant to be done by now? Musk was bullshitting when he made that prediction. Maybe he did it because he had bought his own bullshit. Personally I think what's more likely is that he was cynically conning people. In reality, I think no-one is anywhere close to fully self driving cars. I would be surprised if we saw fully self driving cars any time in the next 50 years. The whole…

> for some reason often believed by otherwise quite smart people I don't understand why so many smart "tech people" fall for the hype. Maybe it is because "machine learning" is just abstract enough that even the most jaded developer thinks they can treat it like a black box where if you pour enough videos, photos and LIDAR readings for training into the top it will somehow spit out a fully autonomous self driving car…

As to "tech people" falling for the hype, it all depends which particular hype but:

"surprised if we saw fully self driving cars any time in the next 50 years."

a couple of years after there have been self driving cars driving around Arizona https://youtu.be/aaOB-ErYq6Y?t=93 reminds me of quotes like

"The aeroplane will never fly." — Lord Haldane, 1907

a while after the Wright brothers had done many flights. You could argue both the Wright brothers planes and the Arizona Waymos were a bit rubbish but these things tend to improve rapidly.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#518

Post by brokenmachine »

gowld wrote: post #403
tenpies wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been my take too. The whole hackathon and hiring effort screams to me of "we have finally concluded that a LIDAR-less implementation is impossible within our lifetimes. We hope one of you has at least a Hail Mary that we can burn money on so we can at least pretend that it may still be done. Anything to keep us from having to refund millions, dealing with a huge class action, seeing the stock halve, and Elon…

Tesla lawyers are good as their engineers. They know how to make you think they are selling self driving cars without actually saying it.

Another commenter here said that Tesla has been selling "fully self driving" as an option since years ago.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#519

Post by omgwtfbyobbq »

torpfactory wrote: post #509
unityByFreedom wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus Tesla still does not report disengagements to the CA dmv, right? It seems so strange to me that their HQ is there and they do not report any testing there.

Either Tesla: (1) Call it a 'driver assist system' and carry that definition beyond all reasonable bounds. I've read the regulation, I don't think that defense would stand up in court. (2) Does physical testing somewhere other than California. The testing regulation is fairly onerous, and I could see them saying 'nah' we'll do this in Arizona, Nevada, etc. You're right they don't report disengagements, but they still…

It'a (1).

For Reporting Year 2018, Tesla did not test any vehicles on public roads in California in autonomous mode or operate any autonomous vehicles, as defined by California law. As such, the Company did not experience any autonomous mode disengagements as part of the Autonomous Vehicle Tester Program in California.

https://electrek.co/2019/02/13/tesla-autonomous-mileage-cali...

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#520

Post by a_bonobo »

thedance wrote: post #391
a_bonobo wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was in a Honda Stepwagn last week and that one recognised stop signs and clearly displayed it.

These can make neat demos but what’s the false negative rate?

I don't think that data exists (outside of Honda's internal servers), does similar data exist for Teslas?
Post reply on HN