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Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

reuters.com

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Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#512
post #511

Wow: > Over the past decade Boeing has skimped on research, development and capital spending, investing only 7% of its sales on average, compared with around 10% at Airbus. (From the article in The Economist: https://www.economist.com/leaders/2019/12/18/boeings-misplac... )

this is what you do when you have to deliver short term results to please your share holders every quarter.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#513

So, realistically, what will happen? Not what _should_ happen, but what will actually happen? 1) the current board will continue 2) European (and other) regulators will not be impressed 3) Boeing sales vs. Airbus will not return to their previous levels for years, if ever; a goodly percentage of international travel will be locked up for Airbus 4) Boeing will also face more competition from SpaceX (and perhaps others…

The big wild card here is SpaceX.

As with all things Elon, SpaceX is built on a financial pyramid. It either wins big, or loses big. And Boeing is a clear loser if SpaceX succeeds. A rule of thumb is that the rare big projects that will do well starts announcing that they are ahead of deadlines early, and that continues. Big projects that won't do not declare slipping deadlines until they can't hide it, and there is never any sense of what the real schedule is.

Right now SpaceX is announcing that they are ahead of deadlines. Boeing is consistently slipping.

What would the losses be? Well consider:

Boeing is counting on billions of dollars for deliveries to the ISS. They are being heavily subsidized and do not have a proven technology for doing so. SpaceX is running routine missions and if their Super Heavy works out will see a dramatic cost drop.

Boeing has billions more at stake with the SLS system for deep space launches and a return to the Moon. But the project is in peril and missing deadlines. Political connections favor Boeing. But if Super Heavy is anything close to what is promised, Elon can as a publicity stunt afford to (unpaid) do missions for a few million dollars that Boeing failed to deliver for 10s of billions. How long will the gravy train continue?

And the giant wildcard is SpaceX suborbital flights. Suppose that SpaceX delivers in the next 5 years on a point to point flight time from anywhere on Earth to anywhere else in a maximum of 1 hour. It will take time for people to conclude that it is safe. But consider, a first class transatlantic flight costs $10,000 and takes ~14 hours. If the SpaceX launch costs their estimated $2 million and carries an average of 250 people, they can charge first class prices for a 30 minute flight, and take home a $500k profit per trip. Anyone who has done a long plane trip will see the appeal of not spending 14 hours in the plane. So your first class passengers switch to SpaceX.

The economics of airline travel are that first class tickets pay a very large chunk of the fixed costs of the flight, while economy tickets pay the marginal costs of adding a person to the flight. Take away the first class tickets and average tickets have to go up in price. The result? Higher ticket prices, more passengers per plane, and a consolidation in the airline industry. SpaceX does not have to take that large a fraction of the volume to trigger that consolidation.

The phrase "consolidation in the airline industry" should be extremely worrying to airplane manufacturers. Fewer and fuller long-range flights means that nobody needs to buy new airplanes for a while. Which means that Boeing's core business craters.

The long and short of it is that if SpaceX delivers, Boeing dies. We will know one way or the other in 5-10 years.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#514
post #491
post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They might just scrap the whole project.

Theoretically they can restart the 737-NG production line, the last one rolled off the production line just 6 months ago. I wouldn't be surprised if it was possible to bring production back up to volume within 18 months.

NG production is ongoing for the military Poseidon and Wedgetail programs so the supplier base is still active.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#515
post #95
post #4

After both The Economist[1] and The New York Times [2] publicly undermined faith in Dennis Muilenberg. No question at this point that he needed to be replaced. The question is - why didn't the board act sooner? [1] https://www.economist.com/leaders/2019/12/18/boeings-misplac... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/22/business/boeing-dennis-mu...

The NYT story in particular was hard-hitting and well sourced. Gotta wonder if these stories influenced the board to act now. It's a bad look, because Boeing is consistently way too late to recognize what is obvious to those of us watching from home. I continue to be astounded that our most senior leaders will not act in the long-term best interest of the organizations they lead. It's been 37 years since the Tylenol…

> "I continue to be astounded that our most senior leaders will not act in the long-term best interest of the organizations they lead."

it's disappointing and frustrating, but not all that surprising, given the decades of eroding honor, responsibility, and governance (both corporate and political) of large companies and their senior managers.

i'm more appalled that we tolerate obviously poor incentive structures that implicitly endorse such behavior.

compensation for senior managers should be better tied to long-term results, and punishments should more easily pierce the corporate veil.

(and whew, glad i covered that tylenol case in my mba program... would not have looked forward to asking for a refund! =)

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#516
post #114

Boeing was still promising end of year FAA certification for 737 Max as recently as early December. Around that time, they had a spokesperson on CNBC who was asked directly how the outstanding steps (which indicated February at the earliest) aligned with their end of year statements and the position was essentially, 'we've been saying end of year and end of year could still happen.' When your brand is suffering a cri…

At this point, management probably cannot get good information about the state of projects. When a company creates a culture of sweeping problems under the rug, and then tries to go back and change that, it creates an impossible situation for people at all levels of the hierarchy. Where management once told people it was OK to hide things from them, now they've changed the rules and are telling them, hey, show us all…

This is why whistleblower protections are so important. Without a radical re-org, there will still be enough management within the company that prefers to cover things up. They might well have been hired for that skill.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#517

So, realistically, what will happen? Not what _should_ happen, but what will actually happen? 1) the current board will continue 2) European (and other) regulators will not be impressed 3) Boeing sales vs. Airbus will not return to their previous levels for years, if ever; a goodly percentage of international travel will be locked up for Airbus 4) Boeing will also face more competition from SpaceX (and perhaps others…

I think they're going to become more dependent on defense business, which is unlikely to go anywhere.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#518
post #503
post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many counter-examples though. BP, Volkswagen, Wells Fargo, Equifax, etc. All doing just fine.

> All doing just fine. I think it may be too early to claim this. I think we can only judge these companies' well-being (especially with respect to their recent controversies) on a medium- to long-term scale. I've banked at Wells Fargo since 2013, and I intend to close my 2 WF accounts and open up new ones at Chase soon. If I could remove my information from Equifax or another credit bureau, I would. By all standards…

> "I've banked at Wells Fargo since 2013, and I intend to close my 2 WF accounts and open up new ones at Chase soon."

you're just moving from one crappy, uncaring bank to another (i've banked at both in the past). a credit union or local/regional bank will treat you like a real human rather than a necessary inconvenience: https://www.bankrate.com/banking/reviews/

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#519
post #513

So, realistically, what will happen? Not what _should_ happen, but what will actually happen? 1) the current board will continue 2) European (and other) regulators will not be impressed 3) Boeing sales vs. Airbus will not return to their previous levels for years, if ever; a goodly percentage of international travel will be locked up for Airbus 4) Boeing will also face more competition from SpaceX (and perhaps others…

The big wild card here is SpaceX. As with all things Elon, SpaceX is built on a financial pyramid. It either wins big, or loses big. And Boeing is a clear loser if SpaceX succeeds. A rule of thumb is that the rare big projects that will do well starts announcing that they are ahead of deadlines early, and that continues. Big projects that won't do not declare slipping deadlines until they can't hide it, and there is…

What percentage of Boeing's revenue and profits comes from NASA contracts and ULA?

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#520
post #509
post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

State pension seems like the better way to go...

What about the risk that the government slashes your benefits?

Even if they do you can also vote in someone next time to restore your benefits. I'd rather have an option on an indefinite benefit vs a fixed one.
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