Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

Ok, my apologies. Let's be specific then. Show me please some international authority saying that the sentence was wrong, or that they did the right thing disobeying court orders or with that "declaration of independence" (what the hell was that more than a provocation that they knew could get them in jail?). But, please, do not show me people saying that they want a democratic solution, that they are against police brutality (who isn't?) or that they support the goal for self-determination. That would be changing the goal, it's not a nice tactic.

You show the case of Iceland. They have "expressed concern". That's fine. I'm concerned too. And Scotland asks for a "democratic solution". A democratic solution cannot include breaking the law or ignoring court orders from a democratic country. I think both sides are guilty of not finding a democratic solution, don't you agree? Don't you think that these people refused the democratic solution the moment they decided to ignore the law? And, if you really think Spanish police is worse than the Chinese one, well... you should go there and check by yourself, I sincerely don't know what to say about such statement.

But let's forget for a second about the other comments and, please, answer me one question: what do you want? What should happen now to make you happy (or at least to stop spreading FUD about our country)? Should the government go against the court rule ignoring separation of powers? Should they allow the kids to burn Barcelona? What exactly do you want?

> doing the right thing

It appears that most of the country (Spain) does not agree hence the existing laws. It's questionable whether even most of Catalonia agrees. Just because a small minority thinks that it's the right thing means nothing in the context of a whole country.

> You shouldn't block your spouse from divorcing you

If you have to use broken analogies to make the point then you don't have much of a point. It should be pretty clear right now that unlike divorce, what we're talking about here is illegal. You don't get to vote whether laws apply to you or not. The country as a whole votes what happens to the country.

> when there's a large demand in a democracy

Spain is the democracy, not Catalonia. And Spain's laws/constitution are pretty clear. The only democratic process that would be valid right now is to change the laws as a country, and then do anything about independence.

You seem to think democracy is this weird selective process where you can take an arbitrary group of people and as long as they mostly agree on something then everyone should submit to that.

Your logic above is perfectly able to justify anything, even genocide, as long as laws no longer apply because (local) majority consensus exists.

> The population in Catalonia is 7,5 millions, and the people that voted independentist parties are 1,6 millions. Have you consider the possibility than not all those "inexistent" people are independentists?.

7.5 million including kids and people who don't vote. 5.5 million people that can vote, ~4.3 that voted (2017 numbers). Over 2 million votes that voted explicitly pro-independence parties [1].

Those are the real numbers.

> Lets assume that some strangers would appear at your door requiring politely you to leave your home and work and go away because you aren't in the right kind of thinking and your bloodlines are Spainted. Oh, and you are not a US citizen (or a german citizen, french, whatever...) anymore.

That's sci-fi. It hasn't happen. It won't happen. If Catalonia would become independent, why would they kick anybody out?

> If you really want to educate yourself, a simple search in youtube will provide you with plenty of data that debunk this idea. Think about it.

Go to Barcelona, report back if that's a war zone or not. The problems/fires have been extremely focalized.

[1] https://eleccions.ara.cat/parlament-21d

Sorry, it's late and I'm tired of having the burden of proof. This is what I will add to the reactions to the ruling (and to the trial) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_of_Catalonia_independenc... . Several international organizations having problems with the trial, not many international reactions on either side. About the UDI... it was a letdown, that was not a real one and everyone that wanted one was disappointed.

On that "both sides are guilty" I could find all the times the Catalan government has tried to talk and the Spanish response has been "no". It's hard to reach a consensus when one side is so fixed on not taking.

I haven't said, and neither think, that the Spanish police is worse than the Chinese one. But if they can make the comparison it's because the way the Spanish police is acting is quite unprofessional and unworthy of a force acting in a democratic country.

What do we want? Lots of things, because there are lots of "factions", each with different needs. I'll try to summarise the principal, some of which I may not agree with. I won't enter into wether they are real or not, some you might think they are not and I'm tired of explaining the same to different people in different media, I should make a github repo.

* Cultural freedom. Catalan culture feels the constant oppression of centralist Spanish culture trying to reduce it to folk usage, like it has almost done with Galician and Valencian (which is the Catalan spoken in Valencia).

* Our money. Catalonia gives more money than it receives.

* End of corruption. We are tired of the rampant corruption in Spain. And yes, Catalan corrupts should go to jail too, starting with Pujol.

* A future. The young ones don't have a future. There is no money, there are no jobs, the world is being destroyed.

* Improve public services. They are being destroyed, in the name of profit (for friends of the different ruling parties).

These are different things that different people want, there are probably more (like letting the political prisoners out and remove the occupation forces). Some are right wing, some left wing, and most of them would sit well with Spanish people.

This is not Catalonia against Spain, it's not even left vs right, it's up vs down.

I'm not aware of any index which considers Spain to be in the highest score (e.g. in the Democracy Index, it gets 8.08).

If you think the age of the constitution means anything at all, then I am scared. Countries that do well, like Norway or Australia, have old constitutions — it means they have practice. Some good, safe democracies, like New Zealand, don't even have a constitution at all. Most of the remainder have constitutions that are old but have been comparatively recently re-enacted to make some superficial change here or there. (In the top ten, Iceland, Finnland and Ireland are probably the countries with the genuinely youngest constitutions.)

And anyone who has seen the Spanish handling of this situation, who thinks that Spain has separation of power, deserves the completely abandonment of the rule of law that is just around the corner.