Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple Reports Declining Profits and Slowing Growth Again

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

511–520 of 527 posts

Re: Apple Reports Declining Profits and Slowing Growth Again

#511

Post by vannevar »

zaptheimpaler wrote: post #310
vannevar wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. But what are the contenders since 2008? The iPad and the Apple Watch. The iPad was really co-developed with the iPhone for all practical purposes, as the original iPad prototype inspired the phone. You can definitely make a case for the watch, but it's an extension of the phone in so many ways.

There aren’t any thats my point. Its like they made the first ever car 10 years ago after lifetimes of horse carriages and you’re disappointed theres nothing else of that magnitude yet.

But it's not like nothing innovative has been released by others. There's the Echo, there's Google Glass, even the Pebble watch, which I would argue was more innovative (as watches go) than the Apple Watch two years later. Are any of them as financially successful as the iPhone? No, but I'm not saying Apple hasn't been financially successful, only that it has not been as innovative as it was in the past.

Re: Apple Reports Declining Profits and Slowing Growth Again

#512

Post by [deleted] »

pas wrote: post #415
0xffff2 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered that your question is a non-sequitur? Short of quitting my job and becoming a subsistence farmer, my company is going to supply me with a computer and a phone for the foreseeable future. The exact nature of those devices isn't really important. They're going to exist and they're going to cost the same order of magnitude as a Macbook Pro and an iPhone.

Yes, I thought about possible reasons why it might be meaningless to ask the question. (Maybe gonational already has billions invested in green tech, or maybe they consider Apple a more responsible GHG emitter than any of the other phone manufacturers even if he/she buys a phone for $400 and plants trees for $600.) But I was interested in his/her reasons.

[deleted]

Re: Apple Reports Declining Profits and Slowing Growth Again

#513

Post by vannevar »

scarface74 wrote: post #362
vannevar wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Apple wouldn't have needed to sell them at $50-150. They're Apple. They could've sold them for $399. They couldn't make the Echo because they lacked either the market insight to see the opportunity, or the technology to pull it off.

You mean like the HomePod? How is that working out? People will buy a $600-$1000 phone for two reasons - it’s highly subsidized/payment plans and the phone is considered a necessity. The number of people who would pay $400 for a smart speaker is minuscule. Heck iPads only started seeing an uptick when Apple started selling good low end models at $329. The AppleTV was a decently early set top box and those didn’t chan…

The HomePod isn't working out because: a) it was way late to the market, and b) Siri's technology lags behind Alexa.

Which supports my argument about lackluster innovation. I can say people won't pay $1200 bucks for a laptop with specs they could get for $800, either, but I'd be wrong because they do.

You might argue the AppleTV was innovative at the time it was released, but there were already very successful game consoles that had much the same functionality plus the games. Even if you count it as an innovation, it was announced in 2007.

Innovative products are not always successful. Now, if AppleTV had incorporated Alexa-level voice control technology back in 2013, that probably would've been innovative and successful.

Re: Apple Reports Declining Profits and Slowing Growth Again

#514

Post by vannevar »

zepto wrote: post #256
vannevar wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. But the iPod and iPhone were functionally very distinct from the Mac. The Apple Watch seems more like a convenient extension that eliminates the need to pull your phone out, but not much more than that, at least in its first few years of existence. Apple is clearly gearing it up to replace the iPhone, but that trajectory has been evolutionary, not revolutionary.

The iPhone was clearly not functionally distinct from a Mac laptop. There was nothing an iPhone could do that a Mac couldn’t do better, except for fit in your pocket.

It's a pretty big jump in mobility and utility from the Mac laptop to the iPhone. It's a much, much smaller jump from the iPhone to the Apple Watch.

Re: Apple Reports Declining Profits and Slowing Growth Again

#515

Post by ses1984 »

computerex wrote: post #506
ses1984 wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't have print screen / sysreq, why is that OK?

Because those keys are not used nearly as often as escape. And because osx has a different keyboard shortcut for screenshots so the print screen key is largely irrelevant.

The reasons you listed are largely why I don't care that the escape key is gone from where it was.

Re: Apple Reports Declining Profits and Slowing Growth Again

#516

Post by scarface74 »

vannevar wrote: post #513
scarface74 wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean like the HomePod? How is that working out? People will buy a $600-$1000 phone for two reasons - it’s highly subsidized/payment plans and the phone is considered a necessity. The number of people who would pay $400 for a smart speaker is minuscule. Heck iPads only started seeing an uptick when Apple started selling good low end models at $329. The AppleTV was a decently early set top box and those didn’t chan…

The HomePod isn't working out because: a) it was way late to the market, and b) Siri's technology lags behind Alexa. Which supports my argument about lackluster innovation. I can say people won't pay $1200 bucks for a laptop with specs they could get for $800, either, but I'd be wrong because they do. You might argue the AppleTV was innovative at the time it was released, but there were already very successful game c…

People will buy a $1300 laptop because a computer is a necessity to get things done. Paying more for something you will use everyday. People will not pay $400 for a smart speaker. People just aren’t that into it b

Re: Apple Reports Declining Profits and Slowing Growth Again

#517

Post by scarface74 »

vannevar wrote: post #508
scarface74 wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m asking the same question. What possible home run could any electronic company create that could be a larger market than the phone market? There are 2.75 billion phones in use worldwide. Anything is going to pale in comparison to that market.

I'm not even looking for a financial home run. I'd settle for a Newton. If Apple had released Google Glass, at least it would show creativity and risk-taking. In fairness, it was easier at the time for Google to fail with Glass, though, because no one expects them to be great at consumer hardware (though they're in the process of raising that expectation). Apple has more reputation at stake, and maybe that's made the…

So you’re criticizing Apple for not releasing a product in a category that was a spectacular failure, but they don’t get credit for products - the Apple Watch and even AirPods - that are successful and profitable?

Re: Apple Reports Declining Profits and Slowing Growth Again

#519

Post by vannevar »

scarface74 wrote: post #517
vannevar wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not even looking for a financial home run. I'd settle for a Newton. If Apple had released Google Glass, at least it would show creativity and risk-taking. In fairness, it was easier at the time for Google to fail with Glass, though, because no one expects them to be great at consumer hardware (though they're in the process of raising that expectation). Apple has more reputation at stake, and maybe that's made the…

So you’re criticizing Apple for not releasing a product in a category that was a spectacular failure, but they don’t get credit for products - the Apple Watch and even AirPods - that are successful and profitable?

They don't get credit for innovating unless the product is innovative, no. Innovation is not synonymous with success, despite what appears in this thread as an overwhelming urge to conflate the two ideas. I'm observing that they haven't really innovated in 11 years. My original question, still unanswered, is if they stop really innovating but continue to be financially successful, will they still be the Apple we love? Can we love them just for releasing solid, evolutionary products (and now software services), or is the anticipation of some big new innovation an intrinsic part of the real Apple's identity?

Re: Apple Reports Declining Profits and Slowing Growth Again

#520

Post by vannevar »

scarface74 wrote: post #516
vannevar wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The HomePod isn't working out because: a) it was way late to the market, and b) Siri's technology lags behind Alexa. Which supports my argument about lackluster innovation. I can say people won't pay $1200 bucks for a laptop with specs they could get for $800, either, but I'd be wrong because they do. You might argue the AppleTV was innovative at the time it was released, but there were already very successful game c…

People will buy a $1300 laptop because a computer is a necessity to get things done. Paying more for something you will use everyday. People will not pay $400 for a smart speaker. People just aren’t that into it b

Maybe so. But I still think if Apple had released an AppleTV with Alexa-quality voice control before the Echo came out, it would've been huge.

I'm wandering off-topic, but I keep imagining an alternative universe where Apple bought Nintendo and released an amazing Nintendo-AppleTV with fantastic voice control, leading to a game ecosystem today where you can seamlessly go from console-to-phone-to-watch playing the same game, with friends.

Post reply on HN