Earlier quoted context omitted.
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I think that Simpsons episode is about 25 years old. Kids today just want to give their allowance to Nazis on Patreon.
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Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt
511–520 of 789 posts
Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt
#512Earlier quoted context omitted.
Our descendants are going to be seriously confused by our practice of limiting or taking away people's ability to earn money because they publicly used a wrong word. Or so I hope, at least.
The right to free speech protects you from being persecuted by the government. Patreon and any other private company reserve the right to choose their customers (and workers) based on what they say. This has always been the case. There are countless examples, even in the past, where companies have fired employees for saying things they shouldn't have.
Thanks captain obvious for repeating what everyone else is constantly repeating when it comes to the letter of the law.
I have to wonder if bots are posting this shit because whenever there is a conversation about free speech, you just get AstroTurf with people making this point about free speech the law, not the principal in order to poison the well.
Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt
#513I'm torn about this. On the one hand, Patreon shouldn't have to do business with people they don't like. On the other hand, at what point do we accept that we have different viewpoints and live and let live? The biggest one for me in recent history was Cloudflare arbitrarily deciding to stop hosting the Daily Stormer. Sure, DS is vile, but at the point we start enforcing censorship on a whim instead of hardened polic…
I don't know if it's centralisation so much as personification. Patreon wants to be a a friendly brand, part of people's self-image. And having chosen this, perhaps they can't afford to live and let live. It's very difficult to imagine Bell Telephone (in their 100% monopoly days I mean) feeling responsible for what people discuss on their wires, or feeling a need to deny (say) pornographers service so that its other…
And having chosen this, perhaps they can't afford to live and let live.
This is how oppression operates. First it's, "Well, we'd live and let live, but we can't afford the consequences if we serve you." Then it will be, "We can't afford the consequences if we're at all associated with you." Then it will be, "We can't afford the consequences if we don't loudly support the 'right' things." Finally, it will become, "We can't afford the consequences if we don't turn you in."
Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt
#514Earlier quoted context omitted.
The fact that Twitter is way more popular than Mastodon doesn't really change anything. It's freedom of speech , not freedom of venue.
If you are only allowed to speak freely when noone can hear you - are you then allowed freedom of speech?
Sure. For example, you can say what you want, after you've been exiled by the government to some desert island. An alternative would be a special muzzle to be fitted on the mouth of someone, so that he can say what he wants but emit no sound. /s
Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt
#515If you've branded yourself as being politically incorrect, isn't this the kind of conflict and publicity you strive to achieve? I'm getting a little tired of people who've made a career saying what you "can't say on TV" and then pretending to be surprised when their content gets pulled.
So in your world, if your labeled politically incorrect by the NYT or friends you should just lay down and die?
Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt
#516This is such a biased article. The most important fact is purposefully omitted. This article makes it seem like Sargon purposefully used those racist statements in a racist context. He was using it as an analogy and against the alt-right. Lying by omission makes this entire article completely bogus. I hate when the fringe media does this in literally every article and I really hate it when the best papers do it and t…
And yet not long ago the New-York Times supported the racist tweets of its editor Sarah Jeong.
Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt
#517Earlier quoted context omitted.
> On the other hand, at what point do we accept that we have different viewpoints and live and let live? The government, soapboxes, homes and places of business that are happy to have them. Freedom of Speech is not the right to be heard. If people don't like what you have to say, or how you are saying it, they are free to walk away. If you don't like what someone is doing in your place of business, you can also throw…
> Freedom of Speech is not the right to be heard. People keep saying this and repeating it, but as far as I can tell this meme is destructive and wrong. Freedom of speech isn't just a legal assurance that congress shall make no law abridging it. It is also a set of cultural norms rooted deeply in a long lineage of hard won ideas. It is Evelyn Hall's principle "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the de…
> It is also a set of cultural norms rooted deeply in a long lineage of hard won ideas.
> By banning these people platforms like Twitter and Patreon are eroding free speech not in the legal sense, but in the cultural norms sense. If these norms continue getting eroded, god help us all -- it may set humanity and the western civilization back by hundreds of years.
Not among those hard-won norms are: hate speech, incitement of violence against groups and individuals, either directly or by thinly disguised dog whistles. Those voices, though they were always present among people, were held back, suppressed if you will, by large media organizations since around the end of the second world war, and definitely since the civil rights movement, when public exclamations of hate-speech and racism became taboo. Prior to that, it was common for newspapers to regularly carry articles that we would today consider vile and bigoted. But norms changed for the better.
But the internet came along and gave a medium to hate speech that had been restrained for decades by traditional media. Bemoaning the restraint of hate speech now is lamenting the loss of a forum which has existed for only 20 years or so, from roughly when the internet became a popular medium, and was discovered by existing hate groups.
The rise of, and tacit societal acceptance of mass-distributed hate speech via the Internet was actually the erosion of the norm, rather than the other way around.
Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt
#518Earlier quoted context omitted.
But that is ultimately a problem of monopolization.
Peterson, Sam Harris and whoever else is involved would probably agree with you, they are now talking about setting up a competitor to Patreon. These people are real financial heavyweights and could probably do it.
And that should be the end of it. This whole debate is a nonissue if there exists an open market. If the ideas are big enough that discriminating against them disenfranchises a fair number of people, these people should have no trouble setting up an alternative that caters to their select 'views'.
Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt
#519Earlier quoted context omitted.
Surely you see the difference between the "sounds crazy" of predicting a market collapse, and the "sounds crazy" of saying we should deport or execute all Muslims (as a for example).
Sure I can. But that isn’t the point . Should we not even be allowed to discuss a hostile immigration policy because it “sounds crazy”? That in and of itself sounds crazy to me.
of course you should be able to discuss it, just in the correct medium for it. If Patreon doesn't want you, bypass it and create your own, or donate directly to the individual. However, with how much dishonest argumentation and outright lying that has been going on in recent years, being forced to accept everyone's speech, equally is farcical at best!
Re: Patreon Bars Anti-Feminist for Racist Speech, Inciting Revolt
#520Earlier quoted context omitted.
As I've said numerous times elsewhere in this discussion, I find him to be an offensive and unlikable person. In this immediate thread of conversation, I was responding to the suggestion that a line should be drawn at the advocacy of genocide by pointing out that he doesn't seem to cross that line, at least as far as I've seen. I fear people are getting the wrong idea by not noticing the full context of my above comm…
> I fear people are getting the wrong idea by not noticing the full context of my above comments. Truthfully, I believe people might take issue with the fact that the distinction you're trying to make is near-meaningless. He's 90% of the way there. He just isn't using his highly-monetized platform to advocate for genocide. However, he's happy to rub shoulders with, and repeat the talking points of, people who do.
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