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Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

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Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

#511

Post by TulliusCicero »

vaylian wrote: post #237
TulliusCicero wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I moved from the bay area to Germany, I suddenly had to actively manage the cash in my wallet and intentionally bring coins -- coins, people! -- with me around town. Felt like taking a step backwards in time, really annoying. If you use the "wrong" bill denominations or don't have the right coins, cashiers can get irked at you too. It's so backwards compared to not having to think about it.

As someone who lives in Germany I find this surprising. Yes, people expect you to have bills of the right size. But coins? Never encountered that. Cashless is more convenient. But given how fundamental money is in our society, I would never be fine with a centralized system that controls all payments. That is simply too much power in one place. I know HN is more about startup-hackers than FOSS-hackers, but I am prett…

> coins? Never encountered that.

Yes, sometimes cashiers ask if I have certain coins to make giving change easier.

Also you need coins for shopping carts.

Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

#512

Post by geezerjay »

gsich wrote: post #414
chrismcb wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smart phones today have a long way to go before they come even close to perfect

You can already see that manufacturers have a hard time to come up with new features. Stuff like thinner devices (nobody cares or wants this to a certain degree, compared to a better battery life), 3+ cameras, notches because for some reason you can't integrate speakers behind the display. "AI" stuff that doesn't work when you're offline. I would trade all this shit for a week battery time. So yes, while smartphones…

> 3+ cameras

Having two back-facing cameras enables your phone to do computer stereo vision stuff, which are key for 3d sensing and augmented reality applications.

Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

#513

Post by geezerjay »

kadendogthing wrote: post #318
gsich wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smartphones today.

Really? I think the smart phones we have are pretty brilliant and functional.

Noot being able to upgrade the OS is a glaring design problem, so there's still work to be done.

Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

#514

Post by reshie »

kadendogthing wrote: post #318
gsich wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smartphones today.

Really? I think the smart phones we have are pretty brilliant and functional.

pretty much. nothing can be perfect for everyone. we still have room for advancement and refinement though and who knows of future breakthroughs.

Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

#515

Post by anoncake »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #351
jakewins wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it only accepts Swedish bank accounts I have a Swedish bank account, but I still can't use Swish because I have an American phone. It's infuriating.

Huh? You can get Swish on the App Store or Google Play for any country, and it works with any phone number, Swedish or not. The only requirements are that you 1) have a Swedish bank account that supports the service (not all banks do), and 2) have Mobilt BankID on your phone. If you possess a Swedish bank account and are in the Swedish Population Register, you should be able to get Mobilt BankID on your phone (which…

> Huh? You can get Swish on the App Store or Google Play for any country, and it works with any phone number, Swedish or not.

That sounds like it makes it impossible for any other phone OS to enter the Swedish market.

Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

#516

Post by NeedMoreTea »

kadendogthing wrote: post #473
gsich wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can already see that manufacturers have a hard time to come up with new features. Stuff like thinner devices (nobody cares or wants this to a certain degree, compared to a better battery life), 3+ cameras, notches because for some reason you can't integrate speakers behind the display. "AI" stuff that doesn't work when you're offline. I would trade all this shit for a week battery time. So yes, while smartphones…

>nobody cares or wants this to a certain degree, compared to a better battery life Then why do consumers constantly praise thinner phones, and continue to purchase them? I think you're mistaking what you want and consider a good choice compared to what everyone else actually wants and is willing to support.

Do they? I inhabit a very different bubble then as I've only heard complaints amongst my friends and workmates lately. Even formerly enthusiastic ones.

It reminds me of the 80s ghetto blasters fad. Size was the thing. As they got ever bigger they got far worse as there was so much resonant empty plastic and they distorted and rattled madly with volume anywhere over 2. Size and LEDs counted above all. Sound? LOL look at these LEDs man.

Most recent changes, from all manufacturers, have been deliberately consumer hostile. There's not much left to actually innovate with. Consumers don't want to keep swapping ecosystems - as that means hassle and re-buying a bunch of apps. Often they'd prefer not to even switch manufacturers if they've ended up using a cloud app for photos or something. So they just buy the next iThing from whoever even if it is too big, or is anti case because of edge to edge screens, or has a fake notch.

Talk about Emperor's new clothes.

So what can I choose that's against this trend? Oh. Nothing. Yet I need a phone, and probably an app or two for work. Best buy something or risk job loss. Even if I detest all the offerings as too big for any pocket I possess.

In your eyes it's a vote for thinner or bigger because a sale was made. No that's not how it works. It's not a simple commodity with only one feature to make, break, and validate the sale. To vote by not purchasing I'd have to cease having a mobile.

Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

#517

Post by msh »

zmk_ wrote: post #449
Symbiote wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just today I went to a concert in Malmø where the bar is cash only. This is a medium sized place. You can withdraw cash by credit card at the ticket desk, to take to the bar and pay for drinks. It's annoying for people like me, occasional visitors from Denmark. I don't know why they don't have the chip and pin terminal at the bar.

They would have to pay commission on every transaction to whoever owns the terminal and the network.

But receiving cash also carries a lot of cost

Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

#518

Post by pnw_hazor »

beefield wrote: post #471
Aeolun wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think my problem with this comes down to ‘why the fuck are you bothering me with this?!’. We have perfectly valid working payment systems (cash, debit/credit), and for some reason you’ve decided that your festivals proprietary payment system is better? Have to load money, have to retrieve money, and have zero insight into how much I’ve already spent without even more apps or interfaces.

> why the fuck are you bothering me with this? Handling cash is a hassle in many ways: 1. It's slow. Obviously it is not slow in the best case when the customer throws in the exact change, but it is _really_ slow in the probably more typical case when the drunkard is at the counter and starts to dig into the pockets and find out if he has enough coins or when the seventh customer in the row wants to pay his ten cent…

also known as f-the-customer.

Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

#519

Post by king_phil »

plufz wrote: post #292
kristofferR wrote: post #97

I'm a Norwegian who went to a Swedish music festival last summer. I couldn't pay for a lot of things there, since the booths only accepted Swish (the only relevant Swedish mobile payment solution, it's a de facto monopoly). I couldn't sign up and use Swish on my phone, since it only accepts Swedish bank accounts. I couldn't borrow money from my Swedish friends either, since they didn't have cash (and it mostly wasn't…

Atleast 99% of my payments in sweden are with a totally normal credit card, the rest with swish. I only use paper money to give to homeless people, can’t remember when I bought something with bills and coins. I think it’s great, I’m more worried about tax evasion than my government knowing what I buy. I’m more interested in my speech being free than my purchases, even though I can see the problem in non-functioning d…

How do you even buy a surprise gift for your wife? Or something she does not "need" to know about?

Re: Sweden's cashless society is no longer a utopia

#520

Post by king_phil »

bjelkeman-again wrote: post #358
metildaa wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not just the government that has this data, but every intermediary in the non-cash payment chain. Mastercard for example sells its payment data to Google, who uses it to correlate online ad viewing with in store purchases. There is no way to opt out of this if you use Mastercard, and other intermediaries do similar shady things with your data.

IF you can’t opt out of this in EU then it goes against GDPR (actually they must let you opt in). It would be interesting to dig deeper here.

You actually can opt out. There is a hidden online form, I saw it once.
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