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Ask HN: What can be done to prevent a climate catastrophe?

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Re: Ask HN: What can be done to prevent a climate catastrophe?

#511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's the big technology companies - I doubt there's any large corporation the shuttering of which would not benefit the environment. I'd like to see more measures such as making a factory take its intake water downstream of where it discharges its waste water - you can bet that waste water will be clean. Otherwise we are reliant on the supposed goodwill of CEOs, which has manifestly failed to deliver th…

> I doubt there's any large corporation the shuttering of which would not benefit the environment. Tesla. Tesla has done more tangible work towards removing carbon from the atmosphere than probably any other entity in history.

This is true, and many more companies too. What I was getting at though was that tech companies have lots of influence but choose not to address this challenge and instead focus on advertising or other areas.

Re: Ask HN: What can be done to prevent a climate catastrophe?

#512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everyone can help, particularly the talented crowd on here. I've been thinking about that for a while, is it possible to have a positive impact on the environment writing software?

Bret Victor wrote on the subject: http://worrydream.com/ClimateChange/

This was the main inspiration for the posts and I refer back to it. Software is everywhere and can absolutely make a difference. Hopefully this will inspire others too.

Re: Ask HN: What can be done to prevent a climate catastrophe?

#513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Polar bear populations are fine, sea level had been rising at the same rate for much longer than we've been industrialized, storm rate isn't changing, and where do you live that there are no insects?

Polar bears can swim all summer while they wait for the ice to return.

I'd be surprised if you have any evidence for this. Adult bears can swim surprisingly long (many days, not months), but cubs cannot and die.

Re: Ask HN: What can be done to prevent a climate catastrophe?

#514
post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d love to see a credible source suggesting that climate change has any kind of remote chance of wiping out all life on earth larger than a few cm.

It's not just climate change, it's the combined effects of a lot of different things, not the least of which is overfishing, deforestation, loss of habitat, and selective destruction of ecosystems. So far we've really only scratched the surface, but there have been hundreds of local mass die-offs (billions of individual animals each). https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2015/01/150113-mass... The Great Barrier R…

All those things are horrible. None of them have the remotest chance of wiping out all life larger than a few cm.

Re: Ask HN: What can be done to prevent a climate catastrophe?

#515
Campaign, advocate for and support clean meat as a viable alternative to conventional factory farmed animal products. Factory farming is one of the biggest source of carbon emissions worldwide and a switch to clean meat can – due to higher efficiency of the meat generation process – have a huge impact here. It’s just one aspect of a possible solution but one that is often overlooked. Steps you can do right now:

If your skills are applicable in this area think about changing the industry or maybe consider donating to the Good Food Institute: https://www.gfi.org.

Re: Ask HN: What can be done to prevent a climate catastrophe?

#516
post #19

Fundamentally it is a political problem, not a technological problem. We need high carbon taxes, we need to end fossil fuel subsidies, and we probably need to change our economic system to something that addresses the tragedy of the commons. But we’ve seen in recent years how technology can influence politics. I’d quote a tweet from Tristan Harris from the other day [1]: > In an hypothetical world, if Facebook were r…

Fundamentally, it's a consumer problem. Consumers don't want to pay more for using green power, or eat less meat, or use public transit instead of a car, buy an electric vehicle, or other things that restrict their comfort or degrade quality of life. Such restriction/degradation would be perceptible and short-term, while the climate threat is not perceptible and is long-term. Nobody really cares if the average temper…

But things can change quickly if aktivists start to be perceived as credible. Germany decided to get out of Nuclear within a year of Fukushima (not the best move in hindsight, given Germanys reliance on coal at the moment...). We need to make climate change more credible in all the ways we have available to us. The easiest step is to start talking about it... get yourself some knowledge about the basics [1] and talk about the topic with confidence. Climate change IS REAL, solutions need to be FORCED ON THE POLITICAL LEVEL and consumers can/should reassure politicans that THIS IS THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE. Steps to take now:

1. Search for a local group enganged in the topic or set up a FB or Meetup event and start doing local talks in Bars. It‘s literally a 30 min effort in preperation plus having a nice time at a bar. Just did that this week and probably doing it again soon.

2. Donate money to effective climate charities, for example, the Coalition for Rainforest Nations [2] or the Clean Air Taskforce [3].

[1]: https://founderspledge.com/research/Cause%20Report%20-%20Cli... [2]:https://www.rainforestcoalition.org (donation page seems to have a problem at the moment...) [3]:http://www.catf.us

Re: Ask HN: What can be done to prevent a climate catastrophe?

#517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If anything, the date gets pushed back. That's what "pushed into the future" means. "Back" means "further away," "up" means "closer." > With every subsequent IPCC report it turns out the previous as an underestimation. So, every IPCC report has been wrong. How long are you going to keep believing them? Sounds like a religion.

> That's what "pushed into the future" means. "Back" means "further away," "up" means "closer." Somebody here on HN just very recently claimed the exact opposite. Could it be a regional dialect thing? > So, every IPCC report has been wrong. How long are you going to keep believing them? Sounds like a religion. This is how science and engineering works, you keep revising and improving your models taking new evidence i…

> Somebody here on HN just very recently claimed the exact opposite. Could it be a regional dialect thing?

FWIW, I have never liked the "back=later, up=sooner" thing. Thinking of a calendar, and time going left-to-right, back seems to me to mean "leftward," which would mean "sooner." This tended to confuse me for a long time, but finally I figured out how to think of it in a way that could stick with me, i.e. the "back=further, up=closer" thing.

> This is how science and engineering works, you keep revising and improving your models taking new evidence into account.

That's one way to look at it. But eventually you have to say that enough is enough. We aren't revising and improving models of the Aether. And just like the Aether, the models and predictions of the IPCC have proven to be inaccurate.

So you seem to be applying science backwards here: you're trusting the models first, and trying to make them accurate as you go. That's not science at all. Indeed, it's much like ancient philosophers who imagined a way that the "invisible" (i.e. microscopic) world worked and then devised a model to explain it.

The scientific thing to do is to remain skeptical until a model is proven to be accurate.

> This is the exact opposite of religion, which never changes its opinion regardless of any new evidence.

That's not true at all. Actual religions change over time. Actual religions study ancient texts and invent new theories about how to interpret them, which often spawn new sects. Actual religions even discover new texts (e.g. the Dead Sea Scrolls) and update their interpretations based on them.

Or to put it another way: religion does not have an opinion--people do. Some people are stubborn--and that includes some who claim to be scientific.

And the way science is currently organized is not so different than many religions: schools which educate experts who study and discuss and write peer-reviewed journal articles and offer simplified versions to laypeople through the media. That's literally true for both science and religion today. Perhaps we should be less concerned about "science vs. religion" and more concerned about searching for the truth.

Re: Ask HN: What can be done to prevent a climate catastrophe?

#518
post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're conflating a "runaway feedback loop" with "a slightly less extreme event that simply eliminates 90% of life on the planet," which says nothing about whether it was caused by a runaway feedback loop.

Therefore, by this logic, zero percent chance... qed

So, how many billion years more would it take to convince you that it's not going to happen? If earth is 4.5 billion years old, that's already more than 25% the age of the universe.

What does the evidence show? Are you willing to believe the evidence?

Re: Ask HN: What can be done to prevent a climate catastrophe?

#519
post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Therefore, by this logic, zero percent chance... qed

So, how many billion years more would it take to convince you that it's not going to happen? If earth is 4.5 billion years old, that's already more than 25% the age of the universe. What does the evidence show? Are you willing to believe the evidence?

As I said before, I think you're confusing a complete boil-off of the atmosphere with a slightly less extreme event that simply eliminates 90% of life on the planet, which has in fact happened before

Re: Ask HN: What can be done to prevent a climate catastrophe?

#520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd describe people with PhDs in atmospheric science who have published papers on climate change or other climate modeling as experts. These people largely disagree with Lindzen.

From the paper: > Richard S. Lindzen was Alfred P. Sloan Professor of Meteorology at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology until his retirement in 2013. He is the author of over 200 papers on meteorology and climatology and is a member of the US National Academy of Sciences and of the Academic Advisory Council of GWPF. Does meteorology count as "atmospheric science"? Does climatology count as "climate change" or…

Yes. Lindzen is a working scientist. But he is not among the majority of scientists. The fact that his name shows up so goddamn often is because he is one of the very few people with those creds that speaks what deniers want to hear.
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