Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you know if anybody ran the numbers? Centralized coal plants might still be more efficient than micro-petrol plants in every car?
It would certainly be an interesting thing to know. Back of the envelope for ICE is ~20% from tank to wheels, From coal plant to wheels of an electric vehicle you'd be looking at line losses first, then AC/DC conversion losses (5% or so) in the charger, battery loss during charging (Ri of the battery comes in to play both ways), again during discharging and then probably a better figure for the drivetrain of an elect…
Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards
511–520 of 522 posts
Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards
#512Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why? We can just keep solving problems. If we really wanted to, we could be carbon neutral in a few years and even pay for carbon sequestration. (Basically, just run the whole global economy on nuclear for example.) Not gonna happen, of course, because it's a huge and expensive undertaking---and there's no(t enough) political will nor even any consensus. But the problem is not our lifestyle per se, nor is competition…
I disagree that it isn't happening. Solar PV capacity is growing rapidly. Vehicles are increasingly powered by electric batteries. These things were all prohibitively expensive for most people in Western countries, but their declining cost has made them more affordable and more used.
Right now new fission power is not economic because of enormous capital costs---but most of that is quite negotiable. Nuclear could be much cheaper, if we only held it to the same standards as eg gas. (I am not even proposing holding it to the same standards in terms of life lost per Joule as coal---coal is aweful on that metric.)
Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards
#513We have to expand nuclear power. Many don't like it but at this point we have no other choice. Let solar drive the phasing out of nuclear reactors instead of coal power plants! Sadly in my country (Sweden) nuclear is not only taboo but it's illegal to perform research of the subject.. Laws passed by a severely misinformed "green" movement...
The problem with nuclear (at least in countries like the UK and USA) is not so much public perception or misinformation but the cost , particularly once eventual decommissioning and long-term waste storage costs are accounted for. It's increasingly difficult for nuclear projects to compete with things like renewables, inter-connectors, and carbon-taxed gas turbines. The one project that has gone ahead recently in the…
I don't follow the whole landscape, but I remember reading about Toshiba 4S getting a contract in Alaska, but having to abandon it because the cost of just certifying was cost prohibitive (because the regulations around giant nuclear don't apply to it). And that sucks.
Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards
#514Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would love to see engineered wood, like Cross-laminated timber, replace concrete as a structural building material.
Why? And laminates are typically petro products.
There's some glue involved, but it removes the carbon stored in the wood from the normal carbon cycle of trees and it would also displace cement/concrete, whose production emits loads of carbon dioxide.
Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards
#515Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well then I guess I'm a bit lost. What exactly is being suggested here? We seem to have established that, for 'many', there's no relationship between material wealth and spirituality (although the people replying to you appear to disagree, but I'm going with your notion). And I think the original post was suggesting that climate change is a consequence of a lack of spirituality. If we take all the above as true, woul…
I think I misread your final sentence as we shouldn't do anything because it means we will fall down a few rungs but having re-read it I suspect you meant if we don't do anything we will be forced down a few rungs. To me it is clear we should do something about it but that is unpalatable to many or even most people because they think their lives will be worse without cheap abundant energy. I think they are wrong.
On cheap abundant energy, I come at it from the other side of things. You're probably right that those is 'first world' countries (like myself) could be more conservative and less wasteful in our energy usage. And we've already got more than enough 'stuff', and having a little less is unlikely to hurt us. My concern is more about developing countries, particularly large ones like India and China that are rapidly industrialising. It's not that people's lives in developing countries will be worse if they halt this process, it's more that they will be condemned to living significantly poorer, and shorter, lives because of a problem they're mostly not responsible for (and that other countries have gotten rich from).
The latter two in particular have rapidly growing energy consumption, and, to be fair, they are making some attempt to generate energy from viable non-co2 sources (for instance, both are strongly pursuing nuclear fission programmes). That said, the overwhelming majority of their current increases in generating capacity comes from constructing new coal-fired plants.
Asking people in these countries to lower their energy use seems extremely unfair: it's like asking the poor to eat a tax-hike to repair the budget. I suspect they'd find it quite intellectually insulting if we were to suggest that instead of continuing to make material improvements to the quality of their lives, they should instead pursue 'spirituality'.
Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards
#516Earlier quoted context omitted.
I certainly don't trust the numbers. There is common sense right? If we stick water vapour and co2 above the weather layer in the atmosphere, it will act like a pane of glass in a greenhouse? Right? You can't rain anything down from 35000ft can you? Look at the warming graphs/animations, most warming happens in the northern hemisphere (where most planes fly), since about 1970, which is when air travel became popular…
So you don't trust the numbers? And you say don't reply with fact-based rebuttals? You seem to be saying that your opinion is fact-free. That's... not very persuasive to the rest of us. I'm more likely to trust the numbers than someone who says "don't reply with facts". Yes, there is common sense; numbers can be misleading. But common sense can also be misleading; don't cling to it against all evidence.
I see contrails every day above my head, they fill the sky on some days.
There is a problem with the sky, the coincidence seems striking to me.
Like smokers in the 1930's being prescribed cigarettes - common sense should be able to indicate a truth that is yet to properly emerge.
Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards
#517Earlier quoted context omitted.
I certainly don't trust the numbers. There is common sense right? If we stick water vapour and co2 above the weather layer in the atmosphere, it will act like a pane of glass in a greenhouse? Right? You can't rain anything down from 35000ft can you? Look at the warming graphs/animations, most warming happens in the northern hemisphere (where most planes fly), since about 1970, which is when air travel became popular…
So you don't trust the numbers? And you say don't reply with fact-based rebuttals? You seem to be saying that your opinion is fact-free. That's... not very persuasive to the rest of us. I'm more likely to trust the numbers than someone who says "don't reply with facts". Yes, there is common sense; numbers can be misleading. But common sense can also be misleading; don't cling to it against all evidence.
Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards
#518Earlier quoted context omitted.
Those aren't fake facts. They are facts. I don't really dispute their legitimacy, they could be absolutely correct and I could be wrong. It's my own view, you don't have to hold it for me. However, this is not either or, which fact is correct or not, this is a sum game. We all add to the problem. Have those facts true or not, helped in any way to reduce the carbon output. 2-3% might seem insignificant - it may be the…
Well said. But, given the choice, I would rather remove my 2-3% of emissions by cutting meat consumption by 90% and/or driving. Your original post was just yelling at people to stop flying, as if there were no other ways to alter a personal consumption pattern. That's what people took issue with.
I'd say stopping eating meat will be a lot harder for people than stopping flying.
Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards
#519Earlier quoted context omitted.
My understanding was that they were expensive and without a price on carbon, no one has an incentive to do it. You don't actually even need to get it out of the atmosphere, you can retrofit power plants with carbon capture tech that is more efficient, but still, there is no incentive.
The best incentive is to come up with something of value that can be done with that carbon. Then it becomes "money I could grab" instead of "pollution I should not be releasing".
But even if there was a better use for carbon, it would still have to be cost competitive with digging it out of the ground, which it's not.
Re: Atmospheric CO2 levels accelerate upwards
#520Earlier quoted context omitted.
So you don't trust the numbers? And you say don't reply with fact-based rebuttals? You seem to be saying that your opinion is fact-free. That's... not very persuasive to the rest of us. I'm more likely to trust the numbers than someone who says "don't reply with facts". Yes, there is common sense; numbers can be misleading. But common sense can also be misleading; don't cling to it against all evidence.
All the numbers we have heard about causes, haven't altered the overall increase in the PPM co2 number. I don't trust that we won't discover more about this situation. My hunch is flying is one of the biggest feedback mechanisms, because of where it happens (high in the atmosphere), how it interacts with the ecosystem (contrails), and the sheer volume of fuel used daily (economic vested interests). I see contrails ev…