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San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

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Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

simple observation shows us that it doesn't work Quite the contrary. A pretty simple reductio proof demonstrates that more housing lowers prices. All you need is to imagine a market in which there is one more apartment available than there are people to rent it.

There's also a simple proof that renters have near-infinite demand flexibility, so the prices can't go up. So....

I actually regret making that comment. We should be suspicious of logic-based arguments about topics for which there is actual evidence. We already know what it looks like when supply outpaces demand, because there are housing markets all over the rust belt where that's the case.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#512
post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're not already married, you should be using it to date. College is hands-down the best place to find a significant other. Once you've graduated, the social life you took for granted quickly fades away and finding people to spend time with and then actually spending time with them becomes vastly more difficult. If you're a cisgendered male, it can be absolutely brutal. Cisgendered female, much less so but still…

What are some smart dating strategies for a straight white male new grad in the Bay Area with 6 digits of disposable income? Dating market seems extremely competitive here.

In a competitive market, customers become discerning. This means you have to put more time and effort into marketing, R&D and UX testing.

Luckily for the intrepid, giving the market something it hasn't seen yet isn't terribly difficult.

Develop some social skills. Best place to do this is a bar. As you get good it can double as your dating pool.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#513
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working for a design firm handling all their development. Hamilton and London also have the same kind of start up communities that the KW has without the pretension of going to UW (I'm a college drop out). Also more expensive in KW than Hamilton. Plus n other reasons why I don't like Toronto and prefer smaller cities, etc.

Well Hamilton is pretty nice (from the little I've seen). I know there's stereotypes and what not for Hamilton as a whole but I've been there and it's great so if you are looking for cheaper rent I don't think you could go wrong. I've never been to London funny enough but I don't doubt it's a great place to live, a lot of hot girls apparently :-) Anyways good luck on your search. I'm sure you will be able to find som…

Thanks for the encouragement! And London is decent, they really love their craft beer out there. I have a lot of friends and family out that way but I think Hamilton is where I'll end up.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#514
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The french quarter in new orleans is also probably less safe than modern buildings, but I wouldn't want to see it torn down just because rents would be cheaper. SF does need to build, badly, but I'm wary of the term NIMBY-ism. It is descriptive, but I think it invites false equivalence. There are degrees of NIMBY. I actually think that some of the burbs, like walnut creek or mountain view (especially the latter) have…

!00% agree that a lot of the suburban communities are worse than SF, but SF still has a shocking amount of unwillingness to build given that it's a large city.

This is a question that interests me. I'm actually not sure that SF has more resistance to building than other cities once you consider that "SF" vs the general bay area is an artifact of an unusual way of managing municipal borders.

Keep in mind, what I'm saying here is a thesis, not a conclusion.

SF is city that ranges from very high density to middle density, with a few expensive and relatively suburban neighborhoods west of twin peaks and/or near the coast (St Francis Wood, Forest Hill, Seacliff, etc)… It has also had a relatively stable population density for over 50 years, and in some of these neighborhoods considerably longer than that.

SF is also a relatively small geographical area that is a different municipality from the nearby cities. In many (most?) cities in the US, sections of SF and Oakland/Berkeley would be the urban core of a larger city, but those suburbs and even exurbs wouldn't be considered different cities in the same region, they would be part of the same municipality. As a result, construction in the hinterlands that doesn't count as growth within "San Francisco" does count in growth in a place like Seattle, where the "city" of Seattle encompasses a much larger geographical area.

So, hear me out - while SF can be excessively preservation minded, think about how people would react if you tried to bulldoze not just the French Quarter in New Orleans, but the garden district, Bayou St John, or even some of the shotgun houses in less famous districts. What would happen if you tried to tear down historic houses in Philadelphia or Boston, or replace entire city blocks of 100+ year old houses or apartments with modern high rises?

My thesis (again, not a conclusion, I'd need to see the data) is that if you identify regions similar to SF - medium density neighborhoods that have existed in this form for 60-100 years, it is very difficult to tear things down and build greater density in many places outside SF. I wouldn't be surprised if it's especially difficult in SF, but I suspect this would be a difference in degree, that SF would have an unusually strong preservation instinct, but that you'd find strong, similar preservation instincts in many other comparable regions - but that these similarities are not evident because we aren't comparing similar geographical regions, again because of the oddity of municipal boundaries in SF (which are a large contributor to the NIMBYism problem, to be sure).

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#515
post #111

It's hard to overstate the impact this is going to have on San Francisco, long-term. As Technology becomes the most important industry in America, a well-governed San Francisco could have positioned itself as the next NYC. The hub where all of tech gathers, the same way all of finance gathered in Wall St. Replace the 70 year old 2-storey homes with Manhattan style apartment buildings, and rent in San Francisco would…

If high-rise development solved the problem of high rents, then why is Manhatten so expensive? Thought experiment: Let's say we do massive high density development in SF. A bunch of people move in, but now that SF is denser it's more desirable, so demand has increased as well, which drives rents right back up. Now we're stuck where we were before: high rents. Having said that, I still support high density development…

Why would people move in just because you built a whole bunch of housing? There's an entire rust belt standing half-empty.

People don't move to where they can find expensive housing - people move to where they can find good jobs. Doubling SF housing wouldn't double the number of good jobs there.

Thought experiment: What do you think doubling the number of high paying jobs do to SF rent? Or, alternatively, halving the available housing?

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#516
post #403
post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I live in SF, but I wouldn't make the choice to move here today. It simply isn't worth Manhattan prices to live in a city full of tech bros where you can't get a good meal after 9:30. This one took me by surprise when I visited SF for the first time five years ago. I thought it would be booming with activity just like NYC, so I thought nothing of trying to find food when I arrived at ~11pm. NOTHING. Nothing was ope…

That's a major over exaggeration and you know it. Name any neighborhood in the city, and I'll give you at least one place open until midnight. You probably couldn't see anything open from your hotel in Union Square or SOMA, but it's there. Just open foursquare or Yelp.

I worked at Yelp, and I've lived here for nearly a decade, and I'm here to tell you: there are maybe ten decent restaurants open in all of SF at midnight. On a good day. You're screwed on a Monday night.

Even if we lower the standard to include fast food and/or greasy post-drunk food, the number jumps to perhaps 30, on a weekend night. So there might be a late-night restaurant in every neighborhood, but there's definitely no more than one. If you want something good, you need to eat before 9.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to say I was impressed to see that Manhattan is +29.6% to San Francisco. SF was certainly the most expensive place I've ever lived.

Possibly skewed because there's so much luxury housing in Manhattan? Anecdotally NYC has always been much cheaper for me than SF. You can still get one bedrooms for under 2k in the East Village and LES

No you can't. Those $1900 apartments of 2013 are now $2500+. But still, there are far more options in the NY metro including those with reasonable commutes. The Bay just seems like a big headache if you don't work near your home.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#518
post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that everything closed so early blew me away, when I moved there. Compared to the middle of nowhere WV it made zero sense. Even the grocery stores closed by midnight in SF. In WV, you can find food at most places until 12-1am 7 days a week. And the major local grocery is a Walmart, which is open 24 hours. Last Easter I had no clue nothing would be open, and didn't prepare for that. So I just had some crap pi…

Since you're on HN I assume you're doing some kind of software or technical work. What's the market like for that in WV. My family's from Man, a little dot in Logan county.

The market is complete crap. I'm back for what was supposed to be temporary, plan was to go to Dallas, but I have attachments here so don't want to go.

I've spent 8 months looking for a technical position. The only interviews I've managed to get are in Roanoke/Blacksburg, VA. Every interview I've had (not many because the market is dry), either drastically undercuts my experience (one company tried to write down my experience below the length of my last job) or otherwise offers a very meager salary, 30-50% lower than even the cost of living adjusted figure from my last job where I was living SoMa.

Also due to infrastructure, and partially the company who marked down my experience because they don't consider remote experience, I'm no longer interested in remote positions.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope that by "mobile-connected smart whiteboard for every team member" you mean "laptop or tablet with touchscreen, and a stylus". You shouldn't need most of the rest of that, either. Make sure everyone has a 2nd monitor, and you'll need to buy a $30 webcam if they don't already have laptops. I wouldn't worry about the headset, either - cell phone headsets or earpods generally work fine and most everyone has a dece…

By the parent comment, I was assuming a distributed team. Speaking from far-too-much experience, partially colocated teams are a productivity suck. But I really do mean a fully distributed team needs a way to properly sketch things out. One of the biggest weaknesses I've seen is that people get limited by the equipment. So long as that's a separate piece of equipment from your video conferencing, it should be fine.

Yea, with partial co-location you need to budget at least 25% of your person-hours to hostage negotiations and koombeya meetings about people's hurt feelings.

0/10, would not try again.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#520
post #497
post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything closing at 9PM is pretty much par for the course here in Vancouver, another city with the skyrocketing cost-of-living thing going on. I wonder if there's a correlation. Maybe everyone is rich enough to pay delivery services or maids or something to get their shopping done while they're at work, so there's no demand for 24-hour businesses? Then again, another thing with Vancouver (that I think I've heard sa…

A major factor in this is that the transit services largely die off at 1am in Vancouver. So for any workers at stores or restaurants they simply can't afford to go home after a certain point. The late night bus service is not good enough, take for example the N19. It is full of all the bar kids at 1am. You don't want to take that bus unless you're drunk. I think you're onto something with the Victorian "healthy livin…

Sounds like they're not too different from us Californians after all.
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