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Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

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Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#511

Post by vonklaus »

zobzu wrote: post #500
vonklaus wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey Brendan, Just wanted to throw my $0.02 out there. A browser company will obviously be the next google. Advertising makes no sense as a monetization strategy in any capacity. World wide web is an RSS feed and browsers currently only a feedparser not reader. What new browser will solve ============ * crawlers are being banned and info is mich more protected. * ads are being blocked more aggressively. * corpus of si…

your english isnt the greatest but the points are reasonably sound. in particular discovery is terrible - its worst - much worse than the altavista days. People don't seem to realize that 99.9% of the people see 0.0..1% of the content, always the same content, for all. a browser that block all ads, trackers, etc can indeed provide the user data for a fee, since the browser always has access to all the data. not sure…

There are open crawl sets available. English is poor because I am on mobile (which is why i am not going to provide the links) one is called, i think, open crawl index.

However, like googlebot, the browser will of course be the actual crawler. Page requests are cached at the databank level, then at the users partition.

The problem is that the web is an rss feed but sites (with valuable info) are blocking crawlers, except google. This creates informational asymmetry.

Since almost all search engines try to emulate page rank, we dont have diversified results, however all our search info is aggregated.

The browser wont "block" adds because it won't ever return websites. It will literally only return (how I imagine v1) to return html snippets and they can be iterated over rapidly.

Tracking won't matter. I haven't worked out exactly how to do it, but i think that you will own a piece of a corpus (essentially there is one corpus, but you have it sort of mirrored to your silo) you can make requests to the corpus to fetch data or to go out into the internet and get raw data. It is returned to your cache (and the global one) then your processing is done locally.

* browser is the feedreader, network and platform

* users sell bots and crawlers to users

* users sell sorted data sets to users

* users sell algorithims to users

* browser is a market maker

Storage so cheap processing power is so good a 20gb cache of data can sit locally. And you can fetch newer data or swap it out for other stuff. You also can store post-processed analytical data in the cloud

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#512

Post by Karunamon »

flubert wrote: post #417
owenversteeg wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree for the most part, but there is a not insignificant part of the population for which those things don't matter. I know a good number of people who don't buy Nike products, don't own a Mac, and haven't been to any theme parks. For those people, whether or not they know the slogan doesn't matter: if you only drink water then 100 Coke vs Pepsi ads do nothing; if you run an obscure Linux distro you'll laugh at bo…

>...certainly is one way to neatly sidestep the modern manipulation of ads. Things may be more insidious than that though. You may not drink Coke or Pepsi, but maybe you have friends or family members that do? I've certainly known people who didn't like to go to certain restaurants because they didn't serve Coke. Maybe you've also gone along with this at sometime in the past. Or maybe you've had to buy gifts for frie…

..you realize that could be because Coke and Pepsi taste rather different and someone may like one to the exclusion of the other? What does that have to do with advertising?

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#513

Post by Karunamon »

shostack wrote: post #405
logingone wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't adblock for privacy, security, or speed. Those are just nice-side effects. I adblock because I do not want to be manipulated into buying things I do not need. Interesting. I'm the opposite. I've yet to encounter an ad that has a hope in hell of manipulating me at all. I couldn't be more dismissive of them. And if I encounter one too often my dislike of the company starts to grow. "It's show time, and you've b…

Not all ads manipulate, and not all advertisers are evil people looking to manipulate their target audience. (Disclosure--I do digital media for a living) Case in point, I once had a vet clinic as a client. People were seeking out information on Google for certain pet symptoms that owners may not have realized warranted a vet visit, and we ran paid search ads against those terms. People were clicking them and then co…

The only difference between persuasion and manipulation when it comes to media is the personal biases of the people having the discussion.

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#515

Post by buro9 »

Urgh, what happens for a site when there are no adverts on the site?

Are "clean adverts" then placed on the site?

If the answer to this is yes, I'll be blocking the user-agent from my sites. I serve cache:no-transform and HTTPS to specifically prevent people mucking around with the page. I already deliver a fast and clean website.

This reminds me of when Virgin Media in the UK (an ISP) wanted to put adverts on pages without my permission. It really isn't a help.

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#516

Post by punee »

r00fus wrote: post #454
ellyagg wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not insane. I want to buy things, I'm going to continue to buy things, and advertisements sometimes make me aware of things I want to buy. If you think that's insane, I'm confused about why you're participating on a site that's fundamentally about promoting a culture of entrepreneurial spirit and enterprise, which requires making people aware of new products and services.

The main issue with ads is message saturation. Like how my wife decided to buy me (for xmas) Star Wars tix so we could both go see it. Yes, I thought it was ok, but she had to hire a babysitter and in the end, if I'd been asked prior, I would've said no, or asked for a better movie (like The Martian). I have the feeling ads almost always sell you something you'd have been better off not buying anyway.

So you're saying The Martian's ad campaign wasn't as good as Star Wars's?

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#517

Post by vectorpush »

LordKano wrote: post #489
vectorpush wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So then, it's not discrimination that you oppose. You just want to be the one to decide the target of the discrimination. Love is love, right? This response makes no sense. I didn't say anything about love or about wanting to decide the target of discrimination. If you pay close attention you can grasp my point. Once again, prohibition of polygamy says marriages that consist of more than two individuals are illegal…

This response makes no sense. It makes perfect sense. You just don't like it. Once again, prohibition of polygamy says marriages that consist of more than two individuals are illegal, it doesn't matter who those individuals are, black, white, man, woman, gay, straight; the law applies evenly to all peoples regardless of who they are. Just like the prohibition on same sex marriage, the prohibition against polygamous o…

> the prohibition against polygamous or polyamorous marriage is about the imposition of arbitrary criteria placed upon what does or does not constitute a marriage.

Once again you're stating the obvious to no logical effect. Some arbitrary criteria is the foundation of every law by definition; the point, which you keep side-stepping, is that prohibition of poly marriage does not meet the definition of discrimination since the law affects all people equally without regard for their individual traits. I understand that you're trying to paint me as a hypocrite because you think they're equivalent, but they're clearly not; to suggest otherwise is like saying prohibiting black people from entering your restaurant is the same as prohibiting more than 10 people from entering your restaurant... Give me a break.

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#518

Post by [deleted] »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #198
_urga wrote: post #7

I would much prefer a new browser that makes true native web apps possible with a one-click install to indicate trust. A browser built with Electron that exposes Node.js and otherwise keeps away from the HTML5 kitchen sink, in order to push innovation away from the spec committees and back out to the community. Vital technology like TCP, UDP, DNS, and the filesystem is being locked up behind a fascade of poorly imple…

That just seems like a really silly idea. The APIs you describe are not 'locked up' by 'spec committees'. They're typically implemented by browser developers within the community, based on the demands of developers and users, grow towards standardisation cross-browser, and are eventually developed into official specifications.

[deleted]

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#519

Post by oxplot »

jordigh wrote: post #70

I will repeat this one more time, because Eich seems to be missing the point.[1] I don't adblock for privacy, security, or speed. Those are just nice-side effects. I adblock because I do not want to be manipulated into buying things I do not need. I wonder what would happen if, as a society, we said, "enough, no more ads". Would it really be the capitalist apocalypse that the ad industry is trying to make us believe…

From top of my head, I can count 5 things I've purchased only after seeing an ad for it, that have improved my life immensely, solving issues that I'd never thought I had. One example is (be careful, I'm advertising here on someone's behalf) bellroy wallet. They aggressively advertised for a while. I bought one and I've kept it for years. Before that, I was purchasing one every half year and found no pleasure in using any after few weeks.

So, I don't believe that I should buy things only when there is an existing "need". Just as is the case with science and technology.

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#520

Post by punee »

theg2 wrote: post #364
amorphid wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am affected by my environment. Aren't you? A page full of ads for things that tend to make me feel slightly less optimal is, well, suboptimal.

Are you that impressionable that you run out to buy every little thing that is shown to you? How do you propose that journalism, creative works, and other medias that are heavily supported by ads exist? Pretty much everyone in this thread says they won't do payment, will block ads, and seemingly has a problem with people earning a living who aren't software developers or startup owners.

Oh but the livelihood of software developers and startup owners also depends on advertising, or even worse gasp... SALES (direct manipulation!!). They just can't admit it.
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