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XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

theguardian.com

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Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#501

Post by abalone »

MrKurtz wrote: post #353
quaunaut wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just want to clarify something: > I can see how they get HTTP information, since they would intercept at transit hubs - but how are they getting all Facebook private messages and Gmail? I don't know how they're getting GMail(and this is probably a slide from when GMail was accessible via HTTP and not HTTPS), but Facebook chat specifically is done over a non-secure XMPP server. The only 'secure' part of that transacti…

You're right the slides are pre default HTTPS gmail (2007/8). But even then gmail is the only webmail service that offers server-to-server encryption, so data can still get intercepted when communicating with someone using yahoo mail or hotmail for example: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57590389-38/how-web-mail-p...

Good point.

You think HTTPS keeps you safe? All it takes is ONE recipient to have an insecure connection and the entire thread is revealed.

Isn't it nice how every email conveniently includes a copy of the entire preceding conversation.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#502

Post by pavanred »

kudu wrote: post #216
clicks wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't worry, you were already on their list. HN fields roughly 200,000 unique visitors each day, most of which have a markedly anti-gov't-spying slant[1], that's enough evidence to be in their cross-hairs. [1]: Such that in some capacity you might participate in the creation/promotion of methods or software to get around their snooping technologies.

Thoughtcrime.

Now lets all forward to newspeak in schools instead of English in the coming years

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#503

Post by _djo_ »

susi22 wrote: post #11

One of the screen shots: http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/audio/video... says: Top Secret Comm(?) REL() to USA, AUS, CAN, GBR, NZL confirming the previous suspicions that many other governments are on board. Der Spiegel actually has reported a few weeks back about XKeyscore [1] and that it is used by the BND (Germany's NSA). I.e. all this data is also available to the NSA equivalents of Australia, Can…

That's COMINT, or Communications Intelligence, basically the type of intelligence that XKeyscore is part of. It might say HUMINT if the intelligence was collected from human sources.

REL TO likely means release to.

As I've said before, the realisation that most countries do this sort of thing comes as no surprise.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#504

Post by griffordson »

jjp9999 wrote: post #460
griffordson wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The traditional media is complicit. And it isn't some grand conspiracy either, they just share the same interests as the rest of the establishment, being part of (and/or owned by) the establishment themselves. There is good independent media that has been covering the story for years though. Here's a Democracy Now story from February 2005: http://www.democracynow.org/2005/2/10/no_place_to_hide_award... Democracy Now…

Only when Jacob Appelbaum was at Wikileaks, they also allegedly stole people's data (through Tor networks). Assange has admitted it - http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/world/wikileaks-intercepted-...

How is that relevant to the NSA story exactly? Are you saying that the Government vacuuming up any and all data it can, and granting internal and external analysts easy access to that data, is comparable to the owner of a private server analyzing the network traffic of their servers and networks? If you want to hold private server and network operators to a standard that restricts them from doing that you're going to have a bad time.

And the purpose of Tor might be different than you imagine:

https://www.torproject.org/docs/faq.html.en#WhatIsTor

Or are you just trying to discredit Appelbaum, Assange, and/or Wikileaks?

Also, is that your article? Should you disclose that? And is there any reason you linked to it rather than the original New Yorker article here:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/06/07/100607fa_fact_...

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#505

Post by mpyne »

spahl wrote: post #60
hga wrote: post #4

This bit both somewhat limits the impact and makes Greenwald et. al.'s claims that most everything is being Hoovered up a lot more credible: " The XKeyscore system is continuously collecting so much internet data that it can be stored only for short periods of time. Content remains on the system for only three to five days, while metadata is stored for 30 days. One document explains: "At some sites, the amount of dat…

But this was written in 2008. Storage capacity could/must have increased massively since then.

But so has the volume of data that NSA would have to retain.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#506

Post by 286c8cb04bda »

nikcub wrote: post #16
ceautery wrote: post #7

I wonder how they store all that. Surely a side benefit of this could be NSA contributions to CS journals about database techniques. Also I doubt the veracity of the claim that they collect "nearly everything". Wouldn't they show up on, say, Sandvine's Internet traffic reports? I think it's more likely this claim is made simply to generate FUD in the general population.

Hadoop[0] and OpenStack[1] I think the era of government being far ahead of commercial tech capability is over. The government mostly outsources now (a problem Snowden identified in terms of information control) or develops in-house with vendors. [0] http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142412788732349560457853... [1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgahKksMZis

The government mostly outsources now (a problem Snowden identified in terms of information control) or develops in-house with vendors.

There are a lot of fingers in that pie. Oracle, for example, has a National Security Group, whose job is to come up with "solutions" and then try to sell them to three-letter-agencies.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#507

Post by mpyne »

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #293
swalsh wrote: post #225

The thing that blows my mind, is you hear over and over again about Billions of dollars being spent on large software projects for the government that seem fairly simplistic that ultimately fail. The NSA is accomplishing some pretty impressive things, what are they doing differently?

Spending tons of our money while being accountable only to themselves.

Spending tons of money didn't help when DoD was trying to field DIHMRS. The military still runs on an ancient COBOL-era payroll system because they can't successfully develop and field a replacement, despite some billions in wasted $$$.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#508

Post by michaelwww »

dclowd9901 wrote: post #280
bmelton wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're both right. If you read the PATRIOT Act, it's easy to look backwards and see that the things we're becoming aware of now are logical extensions of what was being asked for way back then. It is, however, VERY easy not to have been able to have that foresight, and I think that the insights people were expecting the government to have been constrained by the fact that all the information of value is collected by…

If Richard Stallman is quietly berating us somewhere, he can go fuck himself. Part of educating the masses is being a person who people want to listen to. If he failed at that, he's no better than anyone else, and perhaps far worse, because of all the lost potential.

Be careful what you wish for because you might end up with Ted Kaczynski.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#509

Post by noonespecial »

s_q_b wrote: post #414
noonespecial wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The technical possibility isn't the new and staggering part, it's the profound lack of morality, respect for any ideal whatsoever, and compete apathy towards the oaths these people took to serve us . They have compeley misused the power we granted them in sacred trust. We should remove it from them at once. If this has become impossible, we need to know that as soon as we can.

> The technical possibility isn't the new and staggering part, it's the profound lack of morality, respect for any ideal whatsoever, and compete apathy towards the oaths these people took to serve us. Again, I'll chime in as the resident apologist. The people working at Fort Meade are not evil. They truly believe they're doing a great service to the nation. They may be wrong, and they've certainly thrown privacy out…

Concentration camps? Me!? No! I just load the trains. It's a tough job market and I need the work. I'm just a regular Johan just trying to get by.

Re: XKeyscore: NSA program collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

#510

Post by g8oz »

nicholassmith wrote: post #163
akmiller wrote: post #141

Honest, maybe naive question, but what types of programmers actively help build and maintain systems like this? I turned down a job for a company that is less than a mile from my house because I viewed their business as immoral. Hard for me to fathom anyone taking a job, helping to build systems like this. I get that many of the components of a system like this could be seen as harmless. However, a system of this com…

They're probably not thinking of it as immoral. Most likely they actually do believe they're improving national security by doing this. Or they just like the paycheck, that's a big possibility. I imagine the NSA is probably happy to pay a lot with a large amount of bonuses to keep people in roles.

In a profile on Palantir (which sells tools that help with this sort of thing), one employee was quoted as saying "this really is about saving the Shire". Had to laugh.
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