Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

501–510 of 512 posts

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#501

Post by frollogaston »

chasd00 wrote: post #351
hodgesrm wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Michigan also dropped their mandate for ACT / SAT to obtain admission. So, yes, I would say that's pretty broken. Combined with systematic grade inflation American universities as a whole are removing any real feedback about student preparation, level of effort, or ability.

ACT/SAT is still needed for merit based scholarships though so if you fall in the income bracket between homeless and owning your own island those tests are very very important.

You don't get any aid once you're like upper middle class

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#502

Post by frollogaston »

hodgesrm wrote: post #29
ilc wrote: post #13

To those saying this is soft: https://registrar.mit.edu/classes-grades-evaluations/grades/... If you want to say MIT is soft. Feel free.

Michigan also dropped their mandate for ACT / SAT to obtain admission. So, yes, I would say that's pretty broken. Combined with systematic grade inflation American universities as a whole are removing any real feedback about student preparation, level of effort, or ability.

Oh so that's what this is about. Yeah they need to undo that, and also undo this change.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#503

Post by frollogaston »

ilc wrote: post #13

To those saying this is soft: https://registrar.mit.edu/classes-grades-evaluations/grades/... If you want to say MIT is soft. Feel free.

Everything I've heard about MIT is that the school itself is softer than others, but the students are very competitive, which makes it actually hard.

Then there are Ivies and Stanford which are just soft.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#504

Post by frollogaston »

ungreased0675 wrote: post #175

The University of Michigan has around a 15% acceptance rate. How is it possible that they’re letting in kids who aren’t ready to do college level work? What are they selecting for?

They made the SAT optional. But they don't entirely ignore it like some schools.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#505

Post by frollogaston »

doctorwho42 wrote: post #470
dbvn wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you been to a public university recently? Its abysmal.

K, but that is not the discussion point.

University of Michigan is public. And it's a great school, but the bar for admission isn't like MIT.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#506

Post by frollogaston »

culi wrote: post #69
hodgesrm wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Michigan also dropped their mandate for ACT / SAT to obtain admission. So, yes, I would say that's pretty broken. Combined with systematic grade inflation American universities as a whole are removing any real feedback about student preparation, level of effort, or ability.

The UC system and many other of the top universities in the country have also stopped looking at SAT scores. Growing up with no one in my family having gone to college I had no idea how any of this stuff worked or anybody to tell me its important. Eventually I moved to a middle class suburb and saw kids hire private tutors for it. Meanwhile I remember 2 days before I had mine scheduled and had to find someone to beg…

It's much cheaper for a smart student to take the SAT than all the alternative ways to stand out. Unless the school just goes by essay, which as we've learned is either lottery or codeword for discrimination, and then they get students who can't deal with college.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#507

Post by zamadatix »

odyssey7 wrote: post #367
zamadatix wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is saying some students get weeded out the same thing as saying the teacher has zero responsibility to teach any of their students? Whether or not you pay or get paid to be at an educational institution, you should be weeded out (early, preferably) if you aren't going to put in your part. A portion of the educator's role is weeding out students who are not wanting/able to engage with the material before they spen…

Why take money from someone you know you can’t teach? The reality is that prestigious universities routinely take money from incredibly talented people who are fully capable of learning calculus with or without a good teacher, the university gives them a careless or actively harmful teacher, and then the student is deemed a “weed” that was rightfully put in their proper place. When you look at it this way, it’s clear…

Why assume they always know ahead of time? I was a good student in high school and a shit student right after, it wasn't the professors fault for lacking a crystal ball on that. A decade later I did my part out of genuine interest to learn and it went great.

Again, weeding does and needs to happen on both sides because there is more than one type of reason students fail to learn. That is in no way the same thing as saying it's never the teacher's fault, it's saying there are reasons to weed out for all that need to participate properly who aren't. No amount of money exchange changes that education is a two way street in effort.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#508

Post by silverlake »

Aurornis wrote: post #187
joezydeco wrote: post #15

When you force high school kids to work days that are significantly longer than a normal adult to achieve a good GPA and get into a good college, you can expect that they are going to throttle back once they're away from home with way more free time than is normal. From my kid's experience: she was up at 6:30am, in AP classes by 7:30am (three more to go during the day). Classes were done by 3:00, then sports practice…

> When you force high school kids to work days that are significantly longer than a normal adult to achieve a good GPA and get into a good college, My neighborhood and social circle have a number of high school age children, some aiming for high ranking universities. None of them have these grueling 15 hour day schedules you’re describing. I don’t even know of a high school around me that starts at 7:30AM. What unive…

I had this same schedule at a mediocre school in small town USA in the 80s. The AP science course started at 7:30am to give us time for lab work (e.g. dissection in biology). After school activities continued until 4:30, longer if it’s an away game. Homework, part-time job, one off events. It didn’t feel overwhelming at the time, but kids today are soft.

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#509

Post by yieldcrv »

joezydeco wrote: post #15

When you force high school kids to work days that are significantly longer than a normal adult to achieve a good GPA and get into a good college, you can expect that they are going to throttle back once they're away from home with way more free time than is normal. From my kid's experience: she was up at 6:30am, in AP classes by 7:30am (three more to go during the day). Classes were done by 3:00, then sports practice…

This path isnt necessary

The bar is only high for straight out of high school admissions

If you have intention and a cool life story, no crime record, and evidence of a support system, and an ability to pay, universities would love to have that on campus

So forget the grueling stuff and contrived extracurriculars and just graduate, gain some life experiences - gap year, apprenticeship, endeavor - and then apply to colleges

Re: U of Michigan drops first-semester grades to ‘curb mental health crisis’

#510

Post by coldtea »

Tostino wrote: post #480
coldtea wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The stories I’ve heard from others indicates to me that my experience was not unique. Unique no. Hugely outlier, yes.

You kidding? Did you not know working class kids who actually needed a job?

And had to wake up at 6:30 or earlier to go to school? No.
Post reply on HN