Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification • Hacker News Board

Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#501

Post by iamnothere » Tue, Aug 11, 2026, 5:20 PM UTC

otterley wrote: post #500

iamnothere wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Historically, mockery is also the best weapon against authoritarianism. It demonstrates that the state can’t control every aspect of citizens’ lives, especially their beliefs and attitudes. And if the state attempts to exert control, the mockery can be moved towards the subtle, forcing ever-more ridiculous actions like banning people from holding blank sheets of paper (China, UK). This demonstrates weakness, which en…

Historically, armed conflict has proved to be the best weapon against authoritarianism, not mere mockery. The American Colonies had to fight a war to gain independence from Britain. The Third Reich was defeated by Allied soldiers. The Japanese emperor was defeated by nuclear bombs. Dictators in Algeria, Cuba, Vietnam, Angola and Mozambique, and Libya were all toppled by armed uprisings--the list goes on. The "blank p…

Are you really suggesting that armed conflict would be a better option here? Armed conflict is a last resort. It often leads to mass death and destruction, and just as often leads to worse authoritarianism, as in the French, Russian, and Chinese revolutions.

Mockery was very successful in maintaining morale among oppressed groups in both Nazi and Soviet Europe, as well as in many Latin American dictatorships, in times when armed rebellion wasn’t a realistic option. It was also effective during the Yugoslav Wars (Otpor) and the Vietnam War (inside the US).

If mockery weren’t an effective weapon, political cartoons and political satire (and establishment attacks on them) wouldn’t exist.

Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#502

Post by otterley » Tue, Aug 11, 2026, 5:32 PM UTC

iamnothere wrote: post #501

otterley wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Historically, armed conflict has proved to be the best weapon against authoritarianism, not mere mockery. The American Colonies had to fight a war to gain independence from Britain. The Third Reich was defeated by Allied soldiers. The Japanese emperor was defeated by nuclear bombs. Dictators in Algeria, Cuba, Vietnam, Angola and Mozambique, and Libya were all toppled by armed uprisings--the list goes on. The "blank p…

Are you really suggesting that armed conflict would be a better option here? Armed conflict is a last resort. It often leads to mass death and destruction, and just as often leads to worse authoritarianism, as in the French, Russian, and Chinese revolutions. Mockery was very successful in maintaining morale among oppressed groups in both Nazi and Soviet Europe, as well as in many Latin American dictatorships, in time…

> Are you really suggesting that armed conflict would be a better option here?

Of course not. I'm simply refuting your assertion that "mockery is...the best weapon against authoritarianism."

> If mockery weren’t an effective weapon, political cartoons and political satire (and establishment attacks on them) wouldn’t exist.

Mockery can be effective in inspiring others to topple authoritarian regimes or amass public support for doing so. But it is rarely, in and of itself, the weapon that does it. It's better thought of as a catalyst.

I'll also remind you that we still live in a democracy, not an authoritarian regime, despite whatever characterizations people make about our leaders (and some certainly might lean toward authoritarian if the Constitution allowed them to). The most effective means of change in a democracy are persuading voters and politicians. Mockery can help here, to the extent it engenders the sympathies of the larger population. That doesn't seem likely, though, given the content I've seen in this thread.

Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#503

Post by spullara » Tue, Aug 11, 2026, 5:55 PM UTC

wtallis wrote: post #187

spullara wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Algorithmic feeds are just search algorithms based on what the user is asking to see with their behavior.

I think it's pretty obvious that your explanation cannot be complete or accurate. Algorithmic feeds usually have a strong influence of what they want to show you , commonly pushing stuff you aren't interested in, or anything that will keep you on their app/site longer so they have more opportunities to show you ads. There are strong conflicts of interest here.

No one produces a feed that purposefully delivers content or ads that you aren't interested in. Those are bugs. Go look at the published X algorithm. You won't find anything in there that would attempt to show you things that don't match your interests.

Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#504

Post by iamnothere » Tue, Aug 11, 2026, 6:33 PM UTC

otterley wrote: post #502

iamnothere wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you really suggesting that armed conflict would be a better option here? Armed conflict is a last resort. It often leads to mass death and destruction, and just as often leads to worse authoritarianism, as in the French, Russian, and Chinese revolutions. Mockery was very successful in maintaining morale among oppressed groups in both Nazi and Soviet Europe, as well as in many Latin American dictatorships, in time…

> Are you really suggesting that armed conflict would be a better option here? Of course not. I'm simply refuting your assertion that "mockery is...the best weapon against authoritarianism." > If mockery weren’t an effective weapon, political cartoons and political satire (and establishment attacks on them) wouldn’t exist. Mockery can be effective in inspiring others to topple authoritarian regimes or amass public su…

You’re just being pedantic about the definition of “weapon”. Without a groundswell of public support, it’s not possible to enact change. The finishing blow is just one link in the causal chain.

We actually live in an authoritarian or “managed” democracy, where technocratic leadership increasingly ignores or even openly mocks the demands and needs of the people. Insider trading and blatant market manipulation is rampant, technocrats are constantly devising new methods to surveill and suppress public dissent, and regime supporters (regardless of which “color” party is in power) dismiss legitimate concerns and gaslight the public. In some countries they’re even trying to ban political parties who promise to address popular issues. There’s a reason that dangerous ideologies and popular anger are rising, and it’s not the Internet—there are material realities underlying these complaints, and they aren’t being taken seriously.

Our last line of “legitimate” defense is the courts. Thank God for the courts! But they are gradually being compromised as well, and even the Supreme Court is willing to sidestep important decisions if they would be too controversial. Besides, legislation cannot be written from the bench. And so the noose gradually tightens around our necks.

Mockery seems very appropriate, as a way of undermining legitimacy and gathering support. Perhaps the regime can be coerced into serious reforms before it is too late. Or perhaps the old guard will be replaced with reformers as they finally shuffle off. Recent elections seem to indicate that the public won’t stand for the status quo.

Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#505

Post by guerrilla » Tue, Aug 11, 2026, 6:39 PM UTC

ux266478 wrote: post #49

guerrilla wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incorrect. GNU/Linux includes userland while Linux doesn't.

However, unlike GNU plus Linux plus systemd plus FreeDesktop.org, it does not constitute a usable Operating System for a Desktop computer per se. Merely having a notion of userland isn't sufficient! Is age verification to be placed within the coreutils? I think not! Hyperfocusing on putting the API in systemd should be sufficient.... Pay no heed to anyone saying anything different, regulators!

Sounds great, get more people to go to systemd alternatives :D

Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#506

Post by lrvick » Tue, Aug 11, 2026, 6:39 PM UTC

voakbasda wrote: post #490

lrvick wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, we will be supporting desktop/ubuntu style use cases soon. Position will remain the same though. And, agreed, they will still ignore us. But sick of seeing bigger projects cave to this nonsense. But, none of this was about protecting kids. It never was.

They will ignore you right up until precedents are establish for a process to effectively prosecute any holdouts. Sure, first they will come for bigger fish, but then they will come for you.

they can try

Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#507

Post by lrvick » Tue, Aug 11, 2026, 6:43 PM UTC

otterley wrote: post #495

lrvick wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally reasonable take for a pragmatic career lawyer. But I am not a lawyer or a politician and I could not care less if I lose political points with people trying to exert control over the function of software on peoples private devices under some obviously bullshit "save the children" narrative. I am an active FOSS maintainer who wishes to protect the privacy, security, and sovereignty of users of community owned…

> But I am not a lawyer or a politician Neither is Prof. Bernstein. The observation is not oriented to lawyers or politicians; it is oriented towards how to succeed when judges and politicians make the rules.

When a rule is made that has any mechanism for compliance, I will think on this advice, but the law we are talking about is a joke, so I will just laugh at it.

Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#508

Post by otterley » Tue, Aug 11, 2026, 6:49 PM UTC

iamnothere wrote: post #504

otterley wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you really suggesting that armed conflict would be a better option here? Of course not. I'm simply refuting your assertion that "mockery is...the best weapon against authoritarianism." > If mockery weren’t an effective weapon, political cartoons and political satire (and establishment attacks on them) wouldn’t exist. Mockery can be effective in inspiring others to topple authoritarian regimes or amass public su…

You’re just being pedantic about the definition of “weapon”. Without a groundswell of public support, it’s not possible to enact change. The finishing blow is just one link in the causal chain. We actually live in an authoritarian or “managed” democracy, where technocratic leadership increasingly ignores or even openly mocks the demands and needs of the people. Insider trading and blatant market manipulation is rampa…

Look, you own the things you say and are responsible for their accuracy. Attacking people who rightfully correct your misinformed assertions and who want to steer you in a direction that will actually be effective in achieving your aims as "pedantic" does nothing to help your case.

Ultimately, though, it's your call--do what you want.

Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#509

Post by lrvick » Tue, Aug 11, 2026, 6:50 PM UTC

otterley wrote: post #488

lrvick wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I for one found two new cases to read about, and appreciate their comments. Anyone should be free to research, discuss, and try to understand the law for themselves. Lawyers do not own the law. But if actually pulled into a courtroom, sure, get a lawyer.

> Anyone should be free to research, discuss, and try to understand the law for themselves. Lawyers do not own the law. This isn't mere research and discussion; it's suggesting an outcome (i.e., "you're safe[r]"). That crosses a line into advice. > But if actually pulled into a courtroom, sure, get a lawyer. By the time you get pulled into a courtroom, it is often far too late. The time to talk to an attorney is well…

Tens of billions of dollars of infrastructure run on top of stagex, but I remain happy to ignore an unconstitutional, unenforceable, and badly worded law that does not and can not apply to me all the same.

They will be successful at forcing corporate operating systems like MacOS, Windows, and maybe RedHat, but they have no power to compel code being added to independent international volunteer maintained open source operating systems maintained.

For projects with no legal entity like Stagex, arch, alpine, etc... we do not have to comply and there is no legal mechanism that exists to make us. Who would you even target? All maintainers have equal power, and cannot make changes alone. Especially not changes we do not want, for free.

I think the legislators should PR age verification code to all open source operating systems on their own dime, so we can ridicule them mercilessly before closing them as WONTFIX.

Re: Illinois just passed a law that puts Linux on the hook for age verification

#510

Post by iamnothere » Tue, Aug 11, 2026, 6:51 PM UTC

otterley wrote: post #508

iamnothere wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re just being pedantic about the definition of “weapon”. Without a groundswell of public support, it’s not possible to enact change. The finishing blow is just one link in the causal chain. We actually live in an authoritarian or “managed” democracy, where technocratic leadership increasingly ignores or even openly mocks the demands and needs of the people. Insider trading and blatant market manipulation is rampa…

Look, you own the things you say and are responsible for their accuracy. Attacking people who rightfully correct your misinformed assertions and who want to steer you in a direction that will actually be effective in achieving your aims as "pedantic" does nothing to help your case. Ultimately, though, it's your call--do what you want.

Your “correction” was meaningless and incorrect. I stand by my assertion.