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How I use LLMs to learn complex topics

laurentiugabriel.github.io

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Re: How I use LLMs to learn complex topics

#501

Post by turzmo »

engineer_22 wrote: post #467
turzmo wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Baby Rudin is a special textbook: it comes from a time when mathematics textbooks were not at all judged by their pedagogical value, but instead by their aesthetic appeal to mathematicians (a la Bourbaki). If you actually want to learn analysis, there are a nearly infinite number of friendlier resources (e.g., Understanding Analysis by Abbott). Learning to unpack difficult text on one’s own is a valuable skill. Resea…

Your argument sound remarkably familiar. Humor me: "For this invention will produce forgetfulness in the minds of those who learn to use it, because they will not practice their memory.“ -Socrates, on writing. From Phaedrus Secondary source: https://www.historyofinformation.com/detail.php?id=3439

I don't think so. There are many objections to methods of making learning "easier" and the invalidity of one does not imply the invalidity of all of them.

We've also seen the effects of LLMs on learning, at least when used instinctively by students. An entire generation of students seems to have atrophied their critical thinking skills this way. Talk to 21-year-olds today and you'll see what I mean.

Re: How I use LLMs to learn complex topics

#502

Post by m0rc »

qnleigh wrote: post #381
m0rc wrote: post #352

For learning, I find LLM's helpful as a knoledgeable "tutor" or "friend" during the reading of a complex paper or book. Before, when I got stuck, I spend lot's of time going around different books/pages/papers until I was able to find a simple enough explanation that allowed me to "catch up". Now, I can ask the LLM and then continue from there. Learning from a book is still the best... Although I have been told that…

Learning is an unproductive use of your time??? No one knows how LLMs will change things, but that sounds like terrible advice.

You see, it seems that the issue is not learning by itself. But, learning by reading a book cover to cover about a topic. It is not fast enough as the current times seem to require.

A complex book can take me 1 year or more (Visual Complex Analysis of its cousing about Differential Geome, Norvig's Modern IA, etc.).

Re: How I use LLMs to learn complex topics

#503

Post by mcfry »

This is cool, but I feel like the information needs to be refined by someone who understands the domain. A long-form educational resource certainly requires many decisions to be made - where to add more/less detail, where to refine, where to better visualize, etc - and humans are still king of the decision domain, for now at least. Even with the visuals, it feels a lot like the step-by-step I might receive from ChatGPT. There's some value add, I guess, because we're visual creatures first and foremost... but it's tentative.

I don't see nearly enough discussion on the distinction between LLM and human reasoning, where the boundary lies, that type of thing. It's like we've all collectively buried our heads in the sand and accepted that they'll eventually be able to think exactly like us.

Re: How I use LLMs to learn complex topics

#504

Post by uncivilized »

manfromchina1 wrote: post #406
matherial wrote: post #306

This is, without exaggeration, probably the fiftieth blog post or long-form comment about how someone is using an LLM for "complex learning", and I'd just really like to see at least one of these to be accompanied by a statement saying what are the kinds of problems the author can now confidently solve that they couldn't before. In my experience, LLMs are really good for taking up your time and making you feel like y…

I personally don't get this attitude. For one thing, nobody on earth can give you a 500-word summary of quantum physics in a way that lets you internalize even a tiny bit of it. That's not how you learn anything. Here's how I do it: I open Baby Rudin (3rd ed.), second chapter, and read the main text - absolute brutality. I unpack almost every sentence with Claude/GPT until I finally get what's going on. No ELI5 nonse…

Feel free to share your chat that has explanations for Baby Rudin.

I’d like to see what you consider helpful in this context.

Re: How I use LLMs to learn complex topics

#505

Post by phailhaus »

atroche wrote: post #488
phailhaus wrote: post #482

The fact the author thinks every topic can be fit onto a rollercoaster tycoon-style analogy leads me to think they do not actually understand these topics very well.

From the article: > I proceed asking it to build a simulation of that topic in a low-poly, Rollercoaster Tycoon-like animation Sounds like the Rollercoaster Tycoon part is just referring to the aesthetics/graphics, and the author is just suggesting building a top-down isometric 2D animated simulation (which I agree is a bit limiting, there are definitely some things where you'd want to be able to fly around a 3D spac…

Yeah that's the problem. Imagine trying to learn calculus as a top-down isometric 2D animated simulation. It doesn't make sense for the topic.

Re: How I use LLMs to learn complex topics

#506

Post by BeetleB »

turzmo wrote: post #459
manfromchina1 wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally don't get this attitude. For one thing, nobody on earth can give you a 500-word summary of quantum physics in a way that lets you internalize even a tiny bit of it. That's not how you learn anything. Here's how I do it: I open Baby Rudin (3rd ed.), second chapter, and read the main text - absolute brutality. I unpack almost every sentence with Claude/GPT until I finally get what's going on. No ELI5 nonse…

Baby Rudin is a special textbook: it comes from a time when mathematics textbooks were not at all judged by their pedagogical value, but instead by their aesthetic appeal to mathematicians (a la Bourbaki). If you actually want to learn analysis, there are a nearly infinite number of friendlier resources (e.g., Understanding Analysis by Abbott). Learning to unpack difficult text on one’s own is a valuable skill. Resea…

> I would argue that if you’re going to use an LLM to make Rudin easier to understand, you are not learning how to absorb difficult material, nor are you learning analysis efficiently.

I would argue that if he can solve the problems on his own, without LLM assistance, than he has mastered it.

Re: How I use LLMs to learn complex topics

#508

Post by endymion-light »

dns_snek wrote: post #499
endymion-light wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firstly, I can't refute a point that's little more than an opinion - my doubt is that a modern frontier model is significantly hallucinating within a relatively short conversation that can easily be verified. There is no way to refute or accept the point without a complete conversation log. I am criticizing the hyperbolic nature of the comment. I doubt you are getting to the context level of model degredation where i…

Err, that wasn't meant as literal example because real conversations obviously have more than 1 turn. The only thing you could prove by getting a different result is that they don't _always_ do that , even if I shared the full conversation log. You "don't understand the need for such hyperboles" because they're not hyperboles, I don't know how you can not pick up on these errors in your own conversations. > and prete…

Then this entire conversation is a pointless argument - as I agree that models aren't omniscient, godlike entities that are perfect sources of truth, and that you need to use critical thinking when using them.

I don't trust models blindly, and interrogate and verify claims that they make, but that's a basic component of being a human being.

I also never try to have massive multi step conversations to the point where I'm nearing the context limits, as if there's a subclaim i need to interrogate it's far better to clear context and just start a new chat, I have notes to join up ideas.

When learning, I'm not just doing so blindly asking a model questions, I have other material up, I can look at the answer to a example question from a textbook to verify whether I have used a model to successfully learn.

This conversation is just going to devolve further into a "well it doesn't always work" to which yes, I agree, but that doesn't mean it's not useful and doesn't help the learning process.

Re: How I use LLMs to learn complex topics

#509

Post by hackrmn »

manfromchina1 wrote: post #406
matherial wrote: post #306

This is, without exaggeration, probably the fiftieth blog post or long-form comment about how someone is using an LLM for "complex learning", and I'd just really like to see at least one of these to be accompanied by a statement saying what are the kinds of problems the author can now confidently solve that they couldn't before. In my experience, LLMs are really good for taking up your time and making you feel like y…

I personally don't get this attitude. For one thing, nobody on earth can give you a 500-word summary of quantum physics in a way that lets you internalize even a tiny bit of it. That's not how you learn anything. Here's how I do it: I open Baby Rudin (3rd ed.), second chapter, and read the main text - absolute brutality. I unpack almost every sentence with Claude/GPT until I finally get what's going on. No ELI5 nonse…

There's been research done (I know, big words -- don't have any links readily available), where it was pointing to the fact that what goes easily in (into the brain) also goes easily out, and conversely, what the brain requires effort and literal calories and energy to understand, stays there longer (investment must be rewarded / recouped somehow).

So while there's no doubt that facilitating learning is a net-positive, at some point it becomes a net-positive, I suppose -- your brain just chucks it out faster because it knows you can re-obtain the same information again since it worked so easily the first time. It doesn't know the difference between easy and hard, all it knows is how much effort it takes and how much reward (hormones) was generated for it all (to cement the habit/result).

Re: How I use LLMs to learn complex topics

#510

Post by kajaktum »

mfalcon wrote: post #475
anon-3988 wrote: post #264

I am very interested in figuring out how people use LLMs for learning. I definitely have the knowledge, but it is severely autistic in a way. OTOH, I am curious if there's a "practical value" to this exercise? If the LLM already contains the information and implementation knowledge to implement the networking stack inside an FPGA by itself, what value do I gain by learning about HDL, TCP, the bespoke Xillinx tooling,…

You can't simplify learning that way, learning is expanding your mental horizon, by learning something you grow and can take bigger things.

But you can also learn how to use LLM The point about higher level of abstraction yadda yadda
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